Philosophy

[brieze]

So I had a huge debate with my boyfriend today and philosophy was one of the topics. Some things got me thinking.. like does the social norm of the environment control a person's sense of right and wrong? Murder for instance. In some cultures, killing can be honorable. Not meaning military; but that might be on topic now that I think about it. Are we just conditioned to find military killings ''right''?

He's of the belief that philosophies have to come in labels and boxes. He said 'you can't just cherry-pick, if it's wrong for one situation; it's wrong for all because everything is connected'. I, of course, am in the other end of the spectrum.

How do you feel about right and wrong? And what makes you see it that way?

 

[RedRyder]

I would like to think that everyone knows what is right and what is wrong when they consider doing something.... even if randomly or spur of the moment.

If your example is in regards to military killings...... If it's a war and it's found necessary... meaning either you or them.... then it is right. It has to be..... based on training and missions.

If it's just an act of outright murder.... i.e. a robbery, etc.... then it's wrong. No question about it.

 

[brieze]

I would like to think that everyone knows what is right and what is wrong when they consider doing something.... even if randomly or spur of the moment.

If your example is in regards to military killings...... If it's a war and it's found necessary... meaning either you or them.... then it is right. It has to be..... based on training and missions.

If it's just an act of outright murder.... i.e. a robbery, etc.... then it's wrong. No question about it.

Do you think their knowing of right and wrong is dependent on social customs?

 

[RedRyder]

Do you think their knowing of right and wrong is dependent on social customs?

In war.... No. War is war no matter where you go.

In back alleys and bad neighborhoods and even in rich homes (other than the 'honorable killings' that you mention that take place)...... most likely social behaviors with upbringing has more to do with it than customs.

Neglect, bad parenting skills, abuse, poverty, drugs, alcohol, etc...... These are the things that may or may not sway one's belief of right and wrong. The lucky ones escape from this upbringing holding to the knowledge that what they experienced was definitely wrong. They strive to do what they know is right. The unlucky ones see these things as the norm.... and can and often times do... carry the behavior on.

 

[brieze]

I see your thought there. I agree, environment plays a huge role, especially shitty ones.

 

[RedRyder]

I see your thought there. I agree, environment plays a huge role, especially shitty ones.

Most definitely.

 

[Butterfly]

Personally, I go with my gut. If something feels right or wrong to me, is my determining factor.
I pay no heed to social or religious norms, but rather to that which comes naturally to me.

Do you think their knowing of right and wrong is dependent on social customs?

In war.... No. War is war no matter where you go.

I disagree Red. History is written by the victorious afterall.
I'm not picking sides... take Iraq... the Iraqi people probably feel justified in their beliefs, just as the US people feel they are the ones in the right. But who is really right?

 

[RedRyder]

I disagree Red. History is written by the victorious afterall.
I'm not picking sides... take Iraq... the Iraqi people probably feel justified in their beliefs, just as the US people feel they are the ones in the right. But who is really right?

I think you misunderstood my answer based on the question I was asked.

Brieze asked me "Do you think their knowing of right and wrong is based on social customs?"

I answered.... "In war.... No. War is war no matter where you go."

Meaning..... Any side believes they are right to kill (in war).... (nothing to do with customs).

Hope that clears it up for you on my answer.

 

[Butterfly]

I think you misunderstood my answer based on the question I was asked.

Brieze asked me "Do you think their knowing of right and wrong is based on social customs?"

I answered.... "In war.... No. War is war no matter where you go."

Meaning..... Any side believes they are right to kill (in war).... (nothing to do with customs).

Hope that clears it up for you on my answer.

Ah ok. Fair enough then

 

[Azazel]

philosophies have to come in labels and boxes.

 

[per Me]

He's of the belief that philosophies have to come in labels and boxes. He said 'you can't just cherry-pick, if it's wrong for one situation; it's wrong for all because everything is connected'. I, of course, am in the other end of the spectrum.

he's right

 

[per Me]

If your example is in regards to military killings...... If it's a war and it's found necessary... meaning either you or them.... then it is right. It has to be..... based on training and missions.

being necessary doesn't make it right

 

[Peter Parka]

he's right

Or even she.

 

[RedRyder]

being necessary doesn't make it right

I find war abhorring. I never said it was right. Since wars do exist and I answered in regards to military killings...... that was the only answer I could give.

Funny how people take things out of context. You see it all the time. :cool

I would like to think that everyone knows what is right and what is wrong when they consider doing something.... even if randomly or spur of the moment.

If your example is in regards to military killings...... If it's a war and it's found necessary... meaning either you or them.... then it is right. It has to be..... based on training and missions.

If it's just an act of outright murder.... i.e. a robbery, etc.... then it's wrong. No question about it.

 

[HK]

I do think you have to assess situations as they come up. Picking your point of view or set of morals and then applying it to every situation in life might work out fine, or you might come across grey areas that make it very difficult.

Some of it depends on what we want as well. I think most people would say they wouldn't date someone who was married, but then you meet this great person and fall for them, and you start trying to justify being a mistress. So sometimes values change to try and protect our own image of ourselves.

Also we tend to think we know what we'd do in any given situation, but until you're in that moment you just don't know. I'm pro-choice and I don't expect that to change, but I've never had children - maybe my values would change if I got pregnant.

And then there's passing judgement on other people for doing things we consider wrong. I think it's important to learn the difference between 'wrong for everyone' and 'wrong for me'. Just because a value or way of life isn't right for you, doesn't mean it's wrong for everyone. But a lot of people take their own sets of morals and say 'this is what feels right for me, therefore anyone living differently is doing it wrong'. Well, the world isn't black and white.

 

[Guyzerr]

Funny how people take things out of context. You see it all the time. :cool

na ... that never happens.............. especially on this site.

 

[Minor Axis]

Do you think their knowing of right and wrong is dependent on social customs?

To some degree yes, but ultimately it is up to the individual to establish their own moral code. And when enough of like minded individuals gather, then that moral code might become the standard for their society. The most important thing I'll emphasis is that morality comes from within. If you are forced to adhere to a standard of morality that is not yours, does it really mean anything other than you are following rules to avoid punishment?

Murder can be fine with society. Look at 'honor killing' in Pakistan. However, I argue that 'murder' to solve social problems is primitive. Are we savage beasts or intelligent beings who in the big scheme like to pat ourselves on the back for being so advance compared to the critters that surround us.

 

[brieze]

he's right

I don't get how you two can think so black and white. There's an infinite amount of variables that differ from situation to situation. Even if they're dealing with the same topic. How can on answer be correct for all?
Logic also points to differences. I mean, we're not the same on the inside, outside, behavior patterns... so with that in mind, how can someone believe a judgment will work across the board?

I hope that last part made sense.

 

[brieze]

To some degree yes, but ultimately it is up to the individual to establish their own moral code. And when enough of like minded individuals gather, then that moral code might become the standard for their society. The most important thing I'll emphasis is that morality comes from within. If you are forced to adhere to a standard of morality that is not yours, does it really mean anything other than you are following rules to avoid punishment?

Murder can be fine with society. Look at 'honor killing' in Pakistan. However, I argue that 'murder' to solve social problems is primitive. Are we savage beasts or intelligent beings who in the big scheme like to pat ourselves on the back for being so advance compared to the critters that surround us.

I agree more with you.

 

[Devin]

So I had a huge debate with my boyfriend today and philosophy was one of the topics. Some things got me thinking.. like does the social norm of the environment control a person's sense of right and wrong? Murder for instance. In some cultures, killing can be honorable. Not meaning military; but that might be on topic now that I think about it. Are we just conditioned to find military killings ''right''?

He's of the belief that philosophies have to come in labels and boxes. He said 'you can't just cherry-pick, if it's wrong for one situation; it's wrong for all because everything is connected'. I, of course, am in the other end of the spectrum.

How do you feel about right and wrong? And what makes you see it that way?

All things, including what we eat, are based on conditioning. If a person is conditioned to think one way, (such as, by their parents or the community they live in) for so long then they will never change their way of thinking for anything. If a practical, evil person would teach their child that what others see as "wrongdoing" is right, they will simply ignore those who try to change their mind about it. The human mind is easily manipulated in this sense, so we can never really know for sure what is right and wrong, because it's never our choice.