Pentagon study puts McCain in tough spot

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Dana

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After strong appeal from Pentagon, opponents of ‘Don’t ask’ repeal ponder next move



Secretary of Defense Robert Gates appealed strongly to the Senate to repeal the military's ban on openly gay service members within the next month, telling reporters Tuesday that the Pentagon's most comprehensive study of troop opinion found there would be little risk to repealing "Don't ask, don't tell."

Gates mentioned by name the most passionate defender of the military's gay ban, Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain, who has said this study -- which takes into account the survey responses of 115,000 troops and 44,000 military spouses -- is not comprehensive enough to authorize a repeal. McCain has strongly opposed repeal of the ban, and had heretofore insisted that Congress refrain from acting on the question before consulting the results of the Pentagon study. Now that those results seem to favor supporters of repeal, McCain and other backers of "Don't ask, don't tell" face a dilemma: how to keep making their case when not merely influential military leaders, but rank-and-file soldiers appear to have no serious problem with gays openly serving in the military.

McCain's approach has been to suggest the study itself is inadequate.

"In this respect I think he's mistaken," Gates said. "This does provide a sound basis for drawing conclusions on this law...It's hard for me to imagine that you could come up with a more comprehensive approach."

McCain's spokeswoman, Brooke Buchanan, told The Lookout in an email that the senator is "currently in the process of carefully reviewing the Pentagon's report." She did not comment on whether the recommendations will sway the senator to support repeal.

Such a move seems unlikely, though, since many of the report's findings were leaked weeks ago -- and as the preliminary results became public, McCain kept up his opposition to repeal. He made a point of assailing the report itself as inadequate. Over the weekend, McCain said the ban on openly gay service members is "working."

Gates and Chiefs of Staff Chair Adm. Michael Mullen were unequivocal in their recommendation that Congress repeal the policy to avoid a "disruptive" and sudden transition they fear may be handed down by a federal judge. More than two-thirds of surveyed troops said that they're fine with serving alongside openly gay comrades. The study also lays out a comprehensive transition process involving leadership training and education that the Pentagon is confident will be fairly painless.

But there is still some ammunition in the report for opponents of repeal.

Among Marines and other specialty combat troops, resistance to openly gay service is higher than the overall average of 30 percent. Between 40 and 60 percent of combat troops say they think repealing the policy will be bad for troop morale. (Opposition is lower among troops who say they have served with a gay comrade before.) Military chaplains are also very strongly opposed.

Even with these concerns, the overall recommendations seem to put any opponents of repeal in a tough spot.

About 10 senators have said they were waiting on the report to make their final decision on how they will vote. One of them, Republican Richard Lugar of Indiana, said through spokesman Mark Helmke that he is still reviewing the report. Democratic Sen. Jim Webb is also still studying the report, according to spokesman Will Jenkins, who added that the senator has praised the study as unprecedentedly thorough. Arkansas Democrat Mark Pryor signaled in an interview with the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette that he would vote against repeal.

The testimony of service chiefs in upcoming committee meetings could remove the last cover for opponents. If most of the service chiefs back up the study and support the conclusion that Congress should end the policy before the courts do, it will be politically impossible for McCain or other opponents to maintain their stance. Gates, however, said today that the service chiefs are "less sanguine" about the report's findings than he and Mullen are.

The House has already voted to end the policy. After committee hearings Thursday and Friday, Sen. Harry Reid could schedule a vote as early as next week.
 
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TommyTooter

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well dana, it doesn't appear this site is much on politics, does it?

good friend accountable, i know from other venues, is an avid politics jouster, but he doesn't seem to come around much.

some forums will not even allow you to post a complete news story like that with no comments of your own to start the discussion.

i'm pretty ambivalent about this subject and way tired of having to read about it.

i'm real tired of reading about gays and their discrimination gripes, in general, but i'm even more weary of reading the other side and knowing they are giving the gays just cause to whine.


my opinion of the whole DADT issue?

:horse


the related topic i've been wanting to discuss for a while is homophobia vs heterophobia. thanks for posting this because it jelled some thoughts i've been having enough to start the ball rolling. if you'd like, i can post the OP here as well.
 
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edgray

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i'm real tired of reading about gays and their discrimination gripes, in general, but i'm even more weary of reading the other side and knowing they are giving the gays just cause to whine.

Damn those pesky gays for not wanting to be discriminated against. What about the blacks too? Should they have never moaned about the discrimination they suffered and are still suffering?

Anyone at the wrong end of discrimination HAS to stand up and complain, otherwise nothing will ever get changed.
 

TommyTooter

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Damn those pesky gays for not wanting to be discriminated against. What about the blacks too? Should they have never moaned about the discrimination they suffered and are still suffering?

Anyone at the wrong end of discrimination HAS to stand up and complain, otherwise nothing will ever get changed.
sonny, i'm not sure how far i can go in schooling your conceited, sullen ass without getting banned, so i'm just gonna say: strike three.

you and dana have both struck out here and in the thread posted for people to crow in, not banter back and forth some vapid, totally offtopic palaver.

i will thank you both to not pollute threads that i author again with your egocentric intrusions and foetid brain farts.
 

edgray

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sonny, i'm not sure how far i can go in schooling your conceited, sullen ass without getting banned, so i'm just gonna say: strike three.

you and dana have both struck out here and in the thread posted for people to crow in, not banter back and forth some vapid, totally offtopic palaver.

i will thank you both to not pollute threads that i author again with your egocentric intrusions and foetid brain farts.

My what now?

You couldn't school me in anything I'm afraid, oh, apart from following fictitious omnipotent entities of course. Feel free to jabber on about that, son. Then jog on. For the love of God, please jog on.
 

darkangel

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Damn those pesky gays for not wanting to be discriminated against. What about the blacks too? Should they have never moaned about the discrimination they suffered and are still suffering?

Anyone at the wrong end of discrimination HAS to stand up and complain, otherwise nothing will ever get changed.
:homo: I hate to admit it but I agree with ed on this one...
 

Accountable

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Good Lord! Any problems with this issue lies 100% with the military leadership. If the Sergeant says this is the way it is, then this is the way it would be. Simple as that. Even opponents admit that the problem isn't with the homosexual troops but the heterosexual troops being uncomfortable. I say it's not even that. It's the leadership being uncomfortable and lacking a freakin' backbone.
 

Minor Axis

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What is most funny is the assertion if gays can come out in the military, all the straights would quit. Maybe some will but I don't see much change realistically. If you are sitting in a fox hole with bullets flying over your head, I'd think you would take all the help you can get straight or gay.
 

dkwrtw

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What is most funny is the assertion if gays can come out in the military, all the straights would quit. Maybe some will but I don't see much change realistically. If you are sitting in a fox hole with bullets flying over your head, I'd think you would take all the help you can get straight or gay.

This, WHO CARES?
 

TommyTooter

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Good Lord! Any problems with this issue lies 100% with the military leadership. If the Sergeant says this is the way it is, then this is the way it would be. Simple as that. Even opponents admit that the problem isn't with the homosexual troops but the heterosexual troops being uncomfortable. I say it's not even that. It's the leadership being uncomfortable and lacking a freakin' backbone.
hello, accountable, you are one fellow who rarely misapprehends me.

before this went south with my poor response to my opinion, the point that i was trying to make as a disinterested bystander in the incessant homo v heterosexual controversies, military, marriage and the like, it is my wish that the LGBT community would STFU already and start living what they consider to be normal lives within the rest of society and that the hetero community would STFU already and stop wastin gso many of our tax dollars trying to enact legislation trying to prevent them from doing.

on the one hand all i can see is homophobia and on the other heterophobia. enough already, fer chrissakes!

i always forget if was winnie or FDR said it, but we do have only fear itself to fear.


:horse
 

TommyTooter

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Twas FDR.
can you see what i mean about how gays should just shut up and be what they want to be and the anti-gay heteros should just shut up and let them do it and stop forcing the rest of us to pay for their problems with each other or is there some problem with that notion i have failed to apprehend?
 

dkwrtw

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Yes I can agree that both sides should live and let live, but if the hetero soldiers are discriminating against the gays then it's only natural that the gays are going to gripe about it, this is a two way street, you can't lay all the blame on one side or the other.
 

Accountable

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That's the leadership, too. PDA is unacceptable. Inappropriate sexual advances are also unacceptable. That's it. That's all. The leadership let this blow all out of proportion.
 

TommyTooter

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Yes I can agree that both sides should live and let live, but if the hetero soldiers are discriminating against the gays then it's only natural that the gays are going to gripe about it, this is a two way street, you can't lay all the blame on one side or the other.

absolutely. it's just like black on white. which side is more discriminatory against the other? and jews with everybody. trust me on this one, bro. many jews ghettoize themselves in america out of fear for the gentiles and many are extra nice to gentiles for the same reason.

my greatgramp was the sole survivor of a pogrom -- it takes generations for a race of people to get over that and build trust again in a race that slaughtered them 100 years ago. of course none of this is to say that most nice jews are nice because that's the way they are.

but we jews have our share of vicious putzim too. and apparently we have an extra stake in the gay community for some reason. i've got a book call 'shmoozing' that's a compilation of conversations of jews on all kinds of topics if you guys want to play with that, i'll be glad to bring it.

in this DADT issue, we've got a situation of oppression by the minority where all concerned parties except an unspecified fraction of hetero service people want to put the thing to rest. where is the compromise?

my question is how, like we need to overcome other prejudices, what are the cures for the homophobia and heterophobia that fester in the root tangle of the controversy?
 
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