North Carolina and Gay Marriage

[Johnfromokc]

They are reinforcing the southern conservative stereotype :tooth

What say you OTz membership on NC's constitutional amendment on gay marraige?

 

[retro]

It's bullshit and violates the Equal Protection Clause of the United States Constitution... which supersedes the North Carolina Constitution in a situation like that. That being said, it's annoying to me that this happened a day after I made the decision that I'm going to be moving to North Carolina. :24:

That being said though... it wasn't just a "conservative" thing either though... the majority of African Americans identify as Democrats, and they've historically voted overwhelmingly against same sex marriage. I haven't seen the demographics of this vote yet, but I'd expect it to be on par with what we saw in California on Prop 8. Just like Prop 8, I believe it'll be overturned by the United States Supreme Court.

 

[Johnfromokc]

It's bullshit and violates the Equal Protection Clause of the United States Constitution... which supersedes the North Carolina Constitution in a situation like that. That being said, it's annoying to me that this happened a day after I made the decision that I'm going to be moving to North Carolina. :24:

Have fun in NC. It's a beautiful state other than the narrow minded voters.

That being said though... it wasn't just a "conservative" thing either though... the majority of African Americans identify as Democrats, and they've historically voted overwhelmingly against same sex marriage. I haven't seen the demographics of this vote yet, but I'd expect it to be on par with what we saw in California on Prop 8. Just like Prop 8, I believe it'll be overturned by the United States Supreme Court.

True it's not 100% conservative, but I suggest we could agree conservatives and Christians are the prime movers of this kind of legislation.

It is indeed puzzling about many blacks and their opinions on gay marriage - oppression is oppression. I was listening to NPR this morning and two black ministers were on - on pro and one con - so who knows for sure the actual percentage in opposition.

I hope you are right about the SCOTUS eventually striking it down. The thing that bothers me most about what should be a non-issue is the fact that so many want to make this yet another societial wedge issue directing the focus away from the real problems we are facing.

 

[Mercury]

Well ... personally, I have no problem with the concept of Gay Marriage. It doesn't effect my life directly in any way.

Here is where that question that continually eludes me comes up ... "If the majority of people have decided that they don't want a certain aspect in their society ... do the majority have the right to make such a decision or not?"

It makes sense that a majority of people should out-weight the minority of a populace ... but then if that was the case ... Dark colored people would still be treated as lower class citizens ...

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

I'm interested to know who it was who told the Christians that they invented marriage.

 

[Tim]

Well ... personally, I have no problem with the concept of Gay Marriage. It doesn't effect my life directly in any way.

Here is where that question that continually eludes me comes up ... "If the majority of people have decided that they don't want a certain aspect in their society ... do the majority have the right to make such a decision or not?"

It makes sense that a majority of people should out-weight the minority of a populace ... but then if that was the case ... Dark colored people would still be treated as lower class citizens ...

 

[Panacea]

It wasn't surprising, but is was disappointing. We have a long way to go, and I consider myself lucky to have a chance to move to a country that treats its gay citizens like other citizens.

 

[Alien Allen]

I have no dog in the fight

But somebody please explain the sanctity of the word marriage for those who are gay or lesbian. Why is it gays and lesbians need to call it marriage and not a union?

Unless I am not mistaken the definition of marriage is between man and woman and not the same sex.

Is it really that hard to just call it a union and give them the same rights as those married as long as they go thru the same legalities of marriage?

Seems like a reasonable compromise. Let marriage stay defined as it has been always been known as. Yet provide gays and lesbians the same legal rights and just call it a union or whatever name you like other than marriage.

 

[Panacea]

I have no dog in the fight

But somebody please explain the sanctity of the word marriage for those who are gay or lesbian. Why is it gays and lesbians need to call it marriage and not a union?

Unless I am not mistaken the definition of marriage is between man and woman and not the same sex.

Is it really that hard to just call it a union and give them the same rights as those married as long as they go thru the same legalities of marriage?

Seems like a reasonable compromise. Let marriage stay defined as it has been always been known as. Yet provide gays the same legal rights and just call it a union or whatever name you like other than marriage.

I'm sure many would accept a union, but frankly it's not fair, and there are plenty still pushing for gay unions to be illegal.
Really it shouldn't be that difficult to understand why homosexual couples want the chance at marriage, and not a relabeled version. Separate but equal is bs.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

Really it shouldn't be that difficult to understand why homosexual couples want the chance at marriage, and not a relabeled version. Separate but equal is bs.

Wouldn't it just be easier to replace 'gay' and 'straight' with a single term?

 

[Tim]

Is it really that hard to just call it a union and give them the same rights as those married as long as they go thru the same legalities of marriage?

Seems like a reasonable compromise. Let marriage stay defined as it has been always been known as. Yet provide gays and lesbians the same legal rights and just call it a union or whatever name you like other than marriage.

Except the simple fact that the NC constitution explicitly prohibits either for same sex couples. There is NO same sex union allowed according to the new amendment passed.

"Marriage between one man and one woman is the only domestic legal union that shall be valid or recognized in this State. This section does not prohibit a private party from entering into contracts with another private party; nor does this section prohibit courts from adjudicating the rights of private parties pursuant to such contracts."

That means any other domestic or same sex union will NOT be recognized by the state. They didn't just define marriage in their state constitution, they excluded all other unions.

 

[Darrell]

Moving to P&D.

 

[Alien Allen]

I was not referencing the NC proposal

I was speaking in generalities

I still think what I proposed is a reasonable compromise

Unless I am wrong you will not find a definition of marriage to be anything but between a man and a woman

 

[Accountable]

Wouldn't it just be easier to replace 'gay' and 'straight' with a single term?

You mean, like "person" or something? Don't be absurd.

 

[Tim]

I was not referencing the NC proposal

I was speaking in generalities

I still think what I proposed is a reasonable compromise

Unless I am wrong you will not find a definition of marriage to be anything but between a man and a woman

Here's the problem and it's a very valid one.

Only the state can issue a marriage licence, period. You cannot go to any church or other institution and get a marriage licence. The state cannot discriminate so they must issue a marriage licence to two consenting adults. Where as a church has every right to refuse to perform a marriage ceremony to anyone they wish. Hell, my church refused to marry myself and my first wife because we were living together before marriage. It didn't matter that my family went to that church before I was born and I was there 3 days a week up until I got married... they refused.
But the state couldn't refuse the license to us.

Everyone is hung up on the man and women part... why? It's still called a marriage when a man marries 10 women.

 

[Joe the meek]

You guys may not realize this, but NC is one of the last states in the south to pass this amendment. Prior to the vote in NC, I believe 30 states already have this on their books.

 

[Panacea]

Swing state gets the media attention, but ya, it's known that few states support the idea, despite a slim majority of the US population supporting it.

 

[Joe the meek]

Swing state gets the media attention, but ya, it's known that few states support the idea, despite a slim majority of the US population supporting it.

That's exactly what I get a kick out of. NC gets the media attention, but it's not like they're the only state that supports this amendment.

I was surprised to find out so many states already had this on their books already.

The media hype leading up to the day of the vote was unbelievable, with even Billy Graham taking out a full page newspaper add the day before the vote.

 

[Tim]

You guys may not realize this, but NC is one of the last states in the south to pass this amendment. Prior to the vote in NC, I believe 30 states already have this on their books.

You are partially right. NC went far beyond any of the other states by not only defining what marriage is, but denying all other civil unions. This will effect 10's of thousands of people who are not in a same sex domestic partnership in NC.

There are currently 10's of thousands of domestic legal union's in NC that will be effectively unrecognized between men and women because of this amendment.

Same sex marriage was already illegal in NC, why was there a need to also remove domestic legal union's? (Which 90% are between a man and a woman, only 10% are same sex couples)

 

[Joe the meek]

You are partially right. NC went far beyond any of the other states by not only defining what marriage is, but denying all other civil unions.

Are you certain of this statement?

http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research...unions-and-domestic-partnership-statutes.aspx