Nation

[Carthage]

I throw this word around a lot when talking about politics, and so for clarification, I really think I should elaborate on what I mean when I say 'Nation'.

For me, a Nation describes the current government/economic system that controls a culture.
A culture is, basically, the people and it's history.
A people is simply the human beings in a territory.

Therefore, when I say 'blow China to hell' I mean 'blow the Chinese government to hell'. When I say "why don't we bomb these naitons" I mean "Why don't we bomb the government or the military institutions."
IF I were to ever say 'blow the Chinese to hell', or 'blow the Greek culture to hell' , then it would mean the innocent civilians and destroy the culture.
I would never say that, just so you know.

 

[All Else Failed]

A nation to me is simply a group of people under their own governmental system.

 

[Carthage]

Do you actually believe that all government systems are supported by their people?

 

[All Else Failed]

Do you actually believe that all government systems are supported by their people?

Nope.

 

[Carthage]

Then how can you say their OWN government system, if they don't want it?

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Then how can you say their OWN government system, if they don't want it?

Sometimes I get upset with my truck....But it's my own truck....

I don't want Hillary in office, but if she got there, she'd be my president, like it or not.

That is political maturity, being wise enough to know that you don't always get what you want, but what you get is still important.

 

[All Else Failed]

Then how can you say their OWN government system, if they don't want it?

I guess I worded it badly, then. Its a group of people under a governmental system of some sort.

 

[Carthage]

Sometimes I get upset with my truck....But it's my own truck....

I don't want Hillary in office, but if she got there, she'd be my president, like it or not.

That is political maturity, being wise enough to know that you don't always get what you want, but what you get is still important.

That's administration, not government. Government, I mean, is the basic political system as set forward in a constitution or something similar. Democratic Republic, Communist Single-Party, that's what I mean by government. Administration is just one element of government and doesn't represent the overall structure.

If the United States elected Hillary Clinton, I could live with it. If the United States were to become a fascist/communist nation, then I would join the military of Japan and start trying to sway them into a war. When the US becomes that, it's not my government.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

I guess I worded it badly, then. Its a group of people under a governmental system of some sort.

Come on...I said it best and you know it

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

That's administration, not government. Government, I mean, is the basic political system as set forward in a constitution or something similar. Democratic Republic, Communist Single-Party, that's what I mean by government. Administration is just one element of government and doesn't represent the overall structure.

If the United States elected Hillary Clinton, I could live with it. If the United States were to become a fascist/communist nation, then I would join the military of Japan and start trying to sway them into a war. When the US becomes that, it's not my government.

It's as close to fascism now as we can get for a democracy.

Should I mail you a ticket to Japan? I'll pay for first class

 

[Carthage]

It's as close to fascism now as we can get for a democracy.

Should I mail you a ticket to Japan? I'll pay for first class

I don't consider us fascist. As long as we don't have a racially biased government, and as long as people can overhaul the system in a democratic manner, it's not fascism.
When it does become communist/fascist, I'll take that plane ticket.

 

[All Else Failed]

That's administration, not government. Government, I mean, is the basic political system as set forward in a constitution or something similar. Democratic Republic, Communist Single-Party, that's what I mean by government. Administration is just one element of government and doesn't represent the overall structure.

If the United States elected Hillary Clinton, I could live with it. If the United States were to become a fascist/communist nation, then I would join the military of Japan and start trying to sway them into a war. When the US becomes that, it's not my government.

that can't and will not never happen.

 

[All Else Failed]

I don't consider us fascist. As long as we don't have a racially biased government, and as long as people can overhaul the system in a democratic manner, it's not fascism.
When it does become communist/fascist, I'll take that plane ticket.

We do. Our communities are even more racially biased.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

I don't consider us fascist. As long as we don't have a racially biased government, and as long as people can overhaul the system in a democratic manner, it's not fascism.
When it does become communist/fascist, I'll take that plane ticket.

So we have not become...Essentially....Anti-Muslim?

Do we not use/sacrifice Jews to oppress Muslims? Have we not essentially waged war against the Muslim way of life?

Have we not jailed prisoners of war with no warrant, not proof of wrongdoing, no habeaus Corpus?

Hmmm....Yeah....I guess we are nowhere close. Bush, like it or not, is a religious fanatical tyrant who believes that he is leading us towards the rapture. And by outward appearances he has done whatever in the hell he has wanted to unchecked and basically has told the UN to get lost as well as Senate oversight, and Congressional oversight. He does whatever he wants.

It has become....A one man system, rather than a two party branched system.

 

[Carthage]

So we have not become...Essentially....Anti-Muslim?

Do we not use/sacrifice Jews to oppress Muslims? Have we not essentially waged war against the Muslim way of life?

Have we not jailed prisoners of war with no warrant, not proof of wrongdoing, no habeaus Corpus?

.

No, we haven't. Do you have even circumstantial evidence that says we're after Muslims all around and not just terrorists?
And plus, habeas corpus, warrants, proof, etc., belong to human beings. I know I shouldn't judge, but when a guy plans on blowing himself up, he abdicates his humanity, and he no longer deserves human rights.

 

[dt3]

So we have not become...Essentially....Anti-Muslim?

Absolutely not. Yes, the threat currently posed to our country is predominantly FROM Muslims. But that doesn't make us Anti-Muslim, it makes us Anti-people-who's-stated-goal-is-our-destruction. When was the last government-sanctioned attack on a mosque in the US?

Do we not use/sacrifice Jews to oppress Muslims? Have we not essentially waged war against the Muslim way of life?

By Jews, I assume you're referring to US support of Israel. That's not even remotely close to how I see it. In fact, here's something I bet you didn't know.

After Israel became an independent country in 1948, the United States joined an embargo on weapons sales to Israel, the 1949 Tripartite Agreement on weapons. Although the US sold hundreds of millions of dollars in weaponry to Arab states during the 1950s and early 1960s, there were no sales to Israel until 1962 when the US agreed to sell to Israel its first significant American system, the HAWK anti-aircraft missile.

American military involvement with Israel remained sporadic until the 1973 Yom Kippur War. Following an Egyptian refusal to accept a cease-fire and a Soviet military airlift to the Arab states, the Nixon Administration sent a United States airlift of weapons and supplies to Israel enabling her to recover from earlier setbacks. Starting on October 14, 1973 US Air Force "Operation Nickel Grass" flew resupply missions to Israel for a full month.
As a direct result of the Yom Kippur War, the United States quadrupled its foreign aid to Israel, and replaced France as Israel's largest arms supplier. The doctrine of maintaining Israel's "qualitative edge" over its neighbors was born in the war's aftermath.

This was based both on US appreciation of Israel's role as a defender of Western values in a generally hostile region, and also on the Cold War calculus of opposing the Arab client states of the Soviet Union.

From: United States Support of Israel?

Based on those facts, I look at it and say we supported Israel in order to oppose the Soviet Union. Not the "Muslim way of life".

Have we not jailed prisoners of war with no warrant, not proof of wrongdoing, no habeaus Corpus?

Yep, we have. Right or wrong, I don't know. But I do know there's historical precedent for it. Specifically, "Honest" Abe Lincoln.

 

[All Else Failed]

Lincoln was in a totally different situation. The country was basically falling apart. Literally.

 

[dt3]

Lincoln was in a totally different situation. The country was basically falling apart. Literally.

So you're saying that there are some things worth suspending our Constitutional rights?

 

[All Else Failed]

So you're saying that there are some things worth suspending our Constitutional rights?

In extreme situations where all might be lost: Yes. But that is only a extreme and we are not living in a time where that would be needed.