Moral Imperative

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LiberalVichy

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Because some people have expressed interest, disregard or confusion with regards to my ethical philosophy, I am going to write a bit about the logical imperative of morality. In order to understand this piece one ought to read at least the following articles. They're not overly long, but reading the entire argument would probably be best due to their importance, and for that purpose a link serves just as well if not better as my summarizing.
http://www.hanshoppe.com/publications/econ-ethics-10.pdf Argumentation Ethics
http://www.mises.org/journals/jls/12_1/12_1_3.pdf Estoppel in Punishment and Proportionality

After reading that, here is my fusion of them with logic:

I would attempt some answer to the is/out thing with the estoppel principle. Everyone here would probably agree that morals (at least the private-property part of them) only apply in society, since alone no conflicts could arise over property rights and it's nonsensical to imagine any need or meaning to them as long as isolation persists. Ergo, the rules of moral social conduct necessarily assume a social situation. Likewise, as with argumentation ethics in general, in order to discuss or dispute moral propositions we must be engaged in argumentation. Thus we have already commited ourselves to rational communication in a social situation. Yet once this occurs argumentation ethics automatically presume the principle of private property. Nor do these ethical rules disappear when we don't try to debate them (IE act in an aggressive, non-argumentive manner towards others) because when we are confronted for our actions argumentation ethics and estoppel both prevent objection, ie if it is permissible for you to steal when not engaging in rational argumentation then it is permissible for me to steal right back. If you object, your very act of arguing makes appeal to right of aggression nonsensical.
Given that logic and rationality must by definition be good, since the universe is logical and no claim to purposeful behaviour can exist without it (IE, to ignore rationality is to abdicate purpose and therefor any will or claim to existence at all), it must be that within a social situation we are always bound by the laws of private-property. One can never say, "I shouldn't be good" or prove that he shouldn't be in any situation, since he immediatly by his action asserts that he ought to or denies his existence as an actor which is clearly impossible if he is attempting to make any argument.
 
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IntruderLS1

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At the very least, I think it is a positive thing to know 'why' we are who we are.

I'm sure I wouldn't say things the same way you do, but I do aplaud your honest and rational (if overly so) study of who you are and why.
 

Minor Axis

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if it is permissible for you to steal when not engaging in rational argumentation then it is permissible for me to steal right back. If you object, your very act of arguing makes appeal to right of aggression nonsensical.

if it is permissible for you to steal when not engaging in rational argumentation then it is permissible for me to steal right back.

I don't get this statement interpreting how "rational argument" fits in. And you're trying to make this sound simple, but what if I don't have the same things you have that are eligible for stealing?

And instead of one person doing wrong, your system equates to two wrongs makes a right. I can't agree with that. Your brand of morality also equates to an eye for an eye which sets no standard what so ever and you still need an authority to enforce this law. Vigilanteism does not work very well, a 3rd party neutral party is still needed to mediate.
 

LiberalVichy

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When a person robs from me his is in a non-rational situation visa-vis me socially. If I or others then steal from him he cannot object (at least within the amount of his theft) because his objection entails private property (via argumentation ethics) and contradicts his own previous actions (via estoppel). Thus it is always just to reclaim one's own property and requisite property from a thief, since any argument against the propriety of your action entails these as necessary consequents. There are no two 'wrongs', there is one wrong and then just retaliation. All ethics is is logic, as it must be, as, really, everything ultimately is (and, of course, logic and material reality are inseperable).

These consequentialist arguments about 'what works well' are irrelevant to me. The theory itself entails an objective ethical principle whose violation cannot be rationally justified, and therefor I will not advocate or myself violate private property regardless of what outcome may result and what I or others may feel about such an outcome.
 

Minor Axis

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There are no two 'wrongs', there is one wrong and then just retaliation.

I can't agree with this line of reasoning. If you decide stealing is wrong, then it's wrong. Most accepted law is not based on retaliation although in a way it seems that way. Eye for an eye, the Old Testament way of thinking has mostly been discredited although probably not in the circles you hang out in. :)
 

LiberalVichy

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The problem with the old testament was its irrational basis, and consequent irrational and contradictory principles.
I frankly don't give a damn what is popular. I cannot stress this emphatically enough. I have absolutely no doubt that most people's perspective on morality and legality is so ignorant as to make their 'opinions' almost utterly irrelevant to any actual discussion (the same way that talking to most people about astrophysics or Assyrian history is a waste of time for anyone actually informed). If you understood property theory and estoppel, you would understand that taking from a thief is not 'stealing' since he cannot logically object (his own action contradicts his practice). This is known as a performative contradiction. What annoys me most about debating economics, politics and ethical theory with people is that they pretend knowledge when it's clear they don't know as much as anyone who's even read a single book or put any sort of thought ought to know, yet still keep acting like they have some understanding. It's a problem surgeons don't run into, but philosophers and economists do. And the reason is that people can't be controlled with surgery, but implanting the through culture and propaganda of knee-jerk statist/irrationalist theories is essential to making sure that the sleepers don't get woken up.
 
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