Minimum Wage

[Peter Parka]

Interesting debate I was having about this recenty. I dont know if you have minimum wage in the USA or wherever you live but do you agree with it? At first glance it would seem like a good idea but I really dont think it is. Why should for example a man in his 30s with a wife and two kids to support and a university degree be forced to work for the same as some 21 year old kid who lives at home and left school aged 16 with no qualifications. Also the minimum wage just simply isn't enough for a lot of people to live on. I prefered before they introduced it where you agreed with the guy at the job centre, realistically given your circumstances what the minimum wage you will accept is.

 

[itsmeJonB]

I like the latter idea but I've never lived in a place or time where it worked that way. Also careers clearly wouldn't offer minimum wage but these cookie cutter jobs want to hire people as quickly and cheaply as possible

 

[Zorak]

Well a skilled worker with degree class qualifications will be earning £20,000 a year on average I'd guess. That's clearly far above minimum wage level.

The real arguement against minimum wage is that it drives up costs for businesses, however, since minimum wage is calculated against inflation, it's debatable that the free market might end up creating a "natural" minimum wage anyway.

 

[dkwrtw]

I think Minimum wage might be a bit too high where I come from to be honest, fast food places have to pay some 15-16 year old kid nearly $9 an hour to flip burgers and ask "Do you want fries with that?"

 

[Johnfromokc]

Interesting debate I was having about this recenty. I dont know if you have minimum wage in the USA or wherever you live but do you agree with it? At first glance it would seem like a good idea but I really dont think it is. Why should for example a man in his 30s with a wife and two kids to support and a university degree be forced to work for the same as some 21 year old kid who lives at home and left school aged 16 with no qualifications. Also the minimum wage just simply isn't enough for a lot of people to live on. I prefered before they introduced it where you agreed with the guy at the job centre, realistically given your circumstances what the minimum wage you will accept is.

I have a good working knowledge of two nations with minimum wage laws. I know there are minimum wage laws in Europe, but I'm not familiar with them. However, I have spent time in Australia, and have family there, and have studied their economic system quite a bit. Australia's MW is $15 per hour, they typically get 4 weeks paid vacation plus additional vacation pay and universal heath care coverage via a two-teired system. Their economy is plugging right along with low unemployment as the United States struggles through what is being called the "Great Recession".

Compare Australia to the United States MW of $7.25 per hour, zero benefits, period. Even many mid level occupations do not have health care coverage or any paid vacation time at all.

In the United States, the privileges and benefits tend to go to the wealthier, although many here have been convinced by the corporate media that the lower working class and the welfare class are recieving unearned benefits. I challenge any of those type thinkers to give up their current lifestyle and enter the welfare ranks if they really believe this.

For me, I will never begrudge giving a fair shake to the working class. A broad middle class is required for a healthy economy. Living wage laws and universal health care contribute greatly to a vibrant middle class. By my estimation, Australia has it right, and we, the U.S. have it wrong where the minimum wage and health care are concerned. The worst thing any society can have is the working class being divided against itself while the wealthy and privileged get richer and richer from the higher profits from low working class wages.

 

[Kyle B]

I'm in favor of a minimum wage. However, the market adapts with or without a minimum wage. It's just good to know that workers are guaranteed a minimum amount.

 

[cam elle toe]

I have a good working knowledge of two nations with minimum wage laws. I know there are minimum wage laws in Europe, but I'm not familiar with them. However, I have spent time in Australia, and have family there, and have studied their economic system quite a bit. Australia's MW is $15 per hour, they typically get 4 weeks paid vacation plus additional vacation pay and universal heath care coverage via a two-teired system. Their economy is plugging right along with low unemployment as the United States struggles through what is being called the "Great Recession".

Compare Australia to the United States MW of $7.25 per hour, zero benefits, period. Even many mid level occupations do not have health care coverage or any paid vacation time at all.

In the United States, the privileges and benefits tend to go to the wealthier, although many here have been convinced by the corporate media that the lower working class and the welfare class are recieving unearned benefits. I challenge any of those type thinkers to give up their current lifestyle and enter the welfare ranks if they really believe this.

For me, I will never begrudge giving a fair shake to the working class. A broad middle class is required for a healthy economy. Living wage laws and universal health care contribute greatly to a vibrant middle class. By my estimation, Australia has it right, and we, the U.S. have it wrong where the minimum wage and health care are concerned. The worst thing any society can have is the working class being divided against itself while the wealthy and privileged get richer and richer from the higher profits from low working class wages.

This.
Although wages do vary vastly between the capital cities and us country folk.
For example, a skilled tradesman in the city can earn aroun $80 an hour....here, its more like $40.
A naturopath in Sydney can earn twice as much too, but thats more to do with available/cashed up clients/population than geography.

 

[sexysadie]

People with degrees around here don't usually work for min wage unless they're desperate and can't find a job in their field. In that case most people with degrees pack up and move elsewhere. Min wage here is 10 dollars per hour and like it or not, a lot of families are being supported by two people who are earning that wage, between them they're barely making ends meet but that's unfortunately becoming pretty common. My daughter is graduating this year from high school and moving on to university in the fall, just like her brother did but it would shock you to hear how many of her peers have dropped out within the last few years and now have children of their own....most of them live on welfare because min wage isn't enough to support them....and apparently going back to school isn't an option when you're number one priority is partying with your friends.

 

[BadBoy]

I would argue, that as a society, if we are dependent on minimum wage our country is doomed. If you are over 25 and still earning minimum wage you need to have someone smack you in the back of the head because there is no excuse (in the US) why your ass can't go to school. There is tons of free money or student loans you can get to better your career choices. Some would make excuses for why they can't go to school, and that's fine, but remember, its just an excuse.

You cannot get far in today's world without a degree, better yet, the right degree. Pick one. I'm not being an ass, just truthful. Take charge of your own life and don't depend on your government (minimum wage, etc) to bail you out. I was poor when I was in my 20s. Dirt poor. I know the realities of both extremes.

 

[Peter Parka]

Hey, some people just haven't got the brains to get good jobs despite all the education in the world. Besides, the world will always need people to flip burgers and stack shelves so there's no need to look down on them.

 

[Niamh]

It's €8.65 an hour here, they had cut it by a euro last budget but were forced to leave it as it had been originally. I suppose I agree that there should be a minimum wage so that employers can't completely fleece staff.

 

[BadBoy]

Hey, some people just haven't got the brains to get good jobs despite all the education in the world. Besides, the world will always need people to flip burgers and stack shelves so there's no need to look down on them.

Who's looking down? I look down on excuses, not on what people are doing. If they are happy doing what they are doing, great, if not, make a change. I don't judge anyone based on their salary or job. Makes no difference to me.

 

[Peter Parka]

Who's looking down? I look down on excuses, not on what people are doing.

If you are over 25 and still earning minimum wage you need to have someone smack you in the back of the head

:dunno

 

[BadBoy]

:dunno

Thats called motivation.

 

[HK]

You cannot get far in today's world without a degree, better yet, the right degree.

The only problem I have with this statement is the first part. The second part I agree with - get the right kind of degree, and you can go a long way. Particularly if you want to be a doctor, or a lawyer, or some other role that requires a formal education.

However, how many kids take subjects like art history, or journalism, or acting? Those types of degrees invariably lead to exactly the same jobs they could have started in at the same age they began University. There's a lucky few that get their break into an industry, but a lot of young adults these days don't end up in a career related to their degree.

I would never say having a degree is worthless. But I think you have to look at the type of degree and whether you're actually going to get a career path out of it or just a few letters after your name.

In regards to the OP - if you took away minimum wage, it'd change nothing for those who actually have decent paid jobs, and just give shitty little companies the ability to play on people's desperation and pay as little as they can get away with. The idea about agreeing with the job centre what your circumstances should allow is way too complicated - it has too many variables.

 

[JoeCool10]

Minimum wage in Florida is $7.25. Depending on where you work, even, it could be less.

 

[Kyle B]

The only problem I have with this statement is the first part. The second part I agree with - get the right kind of degree, and you can go a long way. Particularly if you want to be a doctor, or a lawyer, or some other role that requires a formal education.

However, how many kids take subjects like art history, or journalism, or acting? Those types of degrees invariably lead to exactly the same jobs they could have started in at the same age they began University. There's a lucky few that get their break into an industry, but a lot of young adults these days don't end up in a career related to their degree.

I would never say having a degree is worthless. But I think you have to look at the type of degree and whether you're actually going to get a career path out of it or just a few letters after your name.

In regards to the OP - if you took away minimum wage, it'd change nothing for those who actually have decent paid jobs, and just give shitty little companies the ability to play on people's desperation and pay as little as they can get away with. The idea about agreeing with the job centre what your circumstances should allow is way too complicated - it has too many variables.

Any degree can be useful or useless, depending how YOU decide to use it.

 

[HK]

Any degree can be useful or useless, depending how YOU decide to use it.

Probably, but I still think some degrees are more or less likely to be useful than others.

Some degrees seem purely designed to get kids into debt and give them an excuse to spend three years getting lashed.

 

[skyblue]

This.
Although wages do vary vastly between the capital cities and us country folk.
For example, a skilled tradesman in the city can earn aroun $80 an hour....here, its more like $40.
A naturopath in Sydney can earn twice as much too, but thats more to do with available/cashed up clients/population than geography.

whats a naturopath?:ninja

 

[BornReady]

I'm in favor of helping the unskilled but I'm not sure if minimum wage is the best way to help them. I'm not an economist but I've heard increasing minimum wage drives inflation which requires another increase. It's like a tiger chasing its tail. Perhaps the best way to help the unskilled is to teach them a skill. That does not necessarily mean university. Some people are not cut out for that. Trade schools are a good option for some. Maybe in extreme cases the government should pay part of a person's wage. I've heard of that working with retarded people.