Magic and Science

Users who are viewing this thread

SnapeIsNotEvil!!!

New Member
Messages
36
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
Who believes that Magic is just a branch of science that people just don't understand fully?

I mean technically, wasn't everything like that at a time? Things people thought were impossible and non-existant being suddenly explored and touched upon by science? Why can't Magic be the same thing? I mean, I'm not saying the whole "Abracadabra" type magic, but magic like communicating with nature and ghosts and other things?

I think it's very possible for magic to be a branch of science just not understood yet.
 
  • 19
    Replies
  • 755
    Views
  • 0
    Participant count
    Participants list

Sam

Active Member
Messages
649
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
What Humans do is " SCIENCE " but things which are done by Super Souls is " Will Power " or " Magic "...

Super Soul doesnt mean it has to be a supernatural soul but a Human can have a super soul by spiritualism. Basically Magic is the power of what a will power can do .. ( Pls note I am not talking abt common magic shows which we usually see.)
 

sharpies

Active Member
Messages
1,385
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
Sorry Sam but since there is no such thing as a soul then there are no creatures with a Super Soul.

I think that there are two branches of Magic. I'm assuming that you are not talking about Illusionists (Magicians) performing tricks. I take it you are alluding to higher forms of Magic, as practiced by Gods, Witches, Wizards, etc.

I personally do not believe in this type of Magic - no miracles or turning pumpkins into carriages but I do believe that there are things that are not yet properly explained by science because there is not enough information available. I can give you two examples of this from the past 20 years.

Ball Lightning - It was once thought that this was crap & that people made it up but balls of plasma can now be made in the lab & there is ample evidence to show that Ball Lightning is a real phenomena.

Spontaneous Human Combustion - there have been a number of deaths of people where it seemed that the only way they could have died was if they somehow just burst into flames. It has now been shown that under the right conditions a body can be burnt away, leaving the blackened stumps of arms & legs, & do very little damage to the rest of the room.

Both of these phenomenom were thought to be paranornal events right up until the late 1980's. There are many examples like this throughout history - sometimes you just have to wait for the answer.

There are still a lot things that science does not have an answer for, but there is no need to look at Magic or Gods or Super Soul beings to find an answer.

Allan
 

Tim

Having way too much fun
Valued Contributor
Messages
13,518
Reaction score
43
Tokenz
111.11z
OK Sharpies, if there isn't magic... then explain how you were able to make that post clear on the other side of the world, and I am able to see it a few minutes later????? They don't have a ship that's fast enough to get your message here that quick.

must be magic :eek
 

sharpies

Active Member
Messages
1,385
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
Come on now Tim, even you must have heard of that there new stuff they call 'lectricity - has somethin' to do with them new fangled doodads... or just maybe it's that butterfly flappping it's wings on the other side of the world & pushing that message along.

Allan
 

Sam

Active Member
Messages
649
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
Sharpies, I am in complete agree with you but I also firmly believe that there are things which are way beyond Science.

Mainly science stands on 4 pillars :

1.) Study
2.) Research
3.) Proof
4.) Conclusion

All the above 4 points are dependant on each other. So when you gave the two examples are also based on the above 4 points.

When speaking about Magic or so called extra ordinary things which a Human can do, thats not a easy task as well.... It has been proved by Science that Humans are in 10 % Conscious state of mind ( actually use 10 % of our brain power ) But there are people who use almost 70 % of brain power. I will give you two examples for the same.

1.) REIKI - Reiki is a Japanese technique for stress reduction and relaxation that also promotes healing. It is administered by "laying on hands" and is based on the idea that an unseen "life force energy" flows through us and is what causes us to be alive. If one's "life force energy" is low, then we are more likely to get sick or feel stress, and if it is high, we are more capable of being happy and healthy.
The word Reiki is made of two Japanese words - Rei which means "God's Wisdom or the Higher Power" and Ki which is "life force energy". So Reiki is actually "spiritually guided life force energy."
A treatment feels like a wonderful glowing radiance that flows through and around you. Reiki treats the whole person including body, emotions, mind and spirit creating many beneficial effects that include relaxation and feelings of peace, security and wellbeing. Many have reported miraculous results.
Reiki is a simple, natural and safe method of spiritual healing and self-improvement that everyone can use. It has been effective in helping virtually every known illness and malady and always creates a beneficial effect. It also works in conjunction with all other medical or therapeutic techniques to relieve side effects and promote recovery.



2.) TELEPATHY - The simplest definition of telepathy can be stated as direct communication between minds.n order to achieve a level of telepathic skill the student must learn to control his feeling in a way to allows the student to let circulate the energy freely between his or her centers (the solar plexus, the heart and the crown chakras are the centers for telepathic communication) . It’s difficult to achieve mental clarity when the mind is under heavy feeling and emotions. The student must become an observer how can you sense someone else thought or feeling if you don’t even listen to your own emotions .

Above two points are just a small example of what task a Human can perform, there are some super souls ( I am not talkin abt Ghosts but actual Human Beings who have trasnformed their lives from ordinary Human Souls to Super Souls by thorough meditation, and belief in Ultimate Power i.e. God )

Therefore, Science is there to explain " why / what / when / how " ... But these things also persist in life which are beyond the limits of Science and rather do not need any proof for its existence. The one who gets experience starts believing it.



Sharpies, your views please.
 

lemon

Member
Messages
7,916
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.01z
OK Sharpies, if there isn't magic... then explain how you were able to make that post clear on the other side of the world, and I am able to see it a few minutes later????? They don't have a ship that's fast enough to get your message here that quick.

must be magic :eek

hahaha... cute.

but did you know, that coaxial cable - the cable that brings your cable tv and internet, if you have cable internet - has huge bandwith, especially if its one-way? yes, indeed, your download rate is much higher than you are lead to believe, because most of the download rate is used for the tv services. oh, and believe it or not, you get every single channel that content provider has. its the box that is what makes the difference in channels. and yes, the cable that is only 1 pin, delivers 125+ channels at almost the exact same time.
 

sharpies

Active Member
Messages
1,385
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
Reike as I understand it is a belief that the body has an energy which can be manipulated by the placing of hands on certain parts of the body or if you look at it in another way - you will feel better after a massage.

There are a couple of disciplines that subscribe to this theory Acupuncture, Shiatsu... etc. Science has shown that some of these things work (note: some don't) by putting pressure onto areas where there are nerve endings, or muscles, that can have a flow-on effect to other parts of the body.

Telepathy - "there aint no such animal". There is no evidence that telepathy exists. I'm not entirely convinced that it doesn't - the twin thing still has not been fully explained - but until someone comes up with proof, I am not a believer.

By the way this bit about humans only using 10% of their brains is a furfy (not true). It is a myth that is used by people who believe in the paranormal to make more things seem possible. Telekinesis, telepathy, fortune telling, far seeing, scrying, faith healing... etc etc - no evidence for any of them.

The Australian sceptics put up a prize of one million dollars to anyone who can prove any of these things - many have tried, no one succeeded.

Allan
 

Sam

Active Member
Messages
649
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
Sharpies, now when u say Telepathy doesnt exist because there is no evidence it means that Science is unable to do so ... but that doesn't prove either that it does not exist other people wouldn't go for it.

Reiki itself works on your mind control which is a tough task to gain its not anyone can do it , so now as I said Science work on 4 basic rules they gave it a scientific explanation. Thats also accepted but what count here is, there are certain things in Life which happen or exist way before Science explores them, if they are not then a question is put up whether they exist or not.

Coming back to our point again let me give you some live examples of ordinary human beings which trasnformed themselves to super souls :

1.) Mother Teresa - Great Humanitarian.

2.) Lord Gautam Budhdha - Super Human Soul

3.) Jesus Christ - Super Soul ( fraction of god )

4.) Mahatma Gandhi - The Peacemaker

These are just some names ..... Super Soul doesnt mean he/ she actually has to perform a miracle but it means what they contribute to MANKIND ..... But to achieve the level requires thorough dedication.

Now, as you said that OZ has a prize money of 1 M for proving certain things then I bet whoever has tried have not upgraded their self to achieve the goal.

So, agreed Science has its own stand but that doesn't mean things which are beyond science do not possess any existence.


Sharpies, your views please.
 

sharpies

Active Member
Messages
1,385
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
I agree - saying that something does not exist does not mean that it doesn't exist... BUT it is up to the people saying that it exists to show or prove that it does. Where is the proof?

1.) Mother Teresa - Great Humanitarian.

2.) Lord Gautam Budhdha - Super Human Soul

3.) Jesus Christ - Super Soul ( fraction of god )

4.) Mahatma Gandhi - The Peacemaker

I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to say here, I agree that all these people lived, I agree that each of them caused massive changes in human history, but then so did Hitler, Ghengis Khan, Napoleon Bonaparte, George W. Bush (sorry, couldn't resist).

Mother Theresa was a nun - doing good was her job.
Jesus Christ was part of a group that rebelled against the greed of the church.
Lord Buddha ran away from his family to live in poverty - he left his wife & kids at home to fend for themselves.
Ghandi disagreed with British rule & fought against them with peaceful rallies - another rebel.

Just my thoughts.

Allan

PS I do not wish to demean the lives of the above people. I have a great deal of respect for what they were trying to do. I am just looking with at things from another perspective.
 

Sam

Active Member
Messages
649
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
" Mother Theresa was a nun - doing good was her job.

Jesus Christ was part of a group that rebelled against the greed of the church.

Lord Buddha ran away from his family to live in poverty - he left his wife & kids at home
to fend for themselves.

Ghandi disagreed with British rule & fought against them with peaceful rallies - another
rebel. "


Dear Sharpies,

Okay , earlier you said that there is no such things as " SOUL " / " SUPER SOUL "

The 4 examples which I mentioned are just a bright example of ordinary human

beings who dedicated their life for people and their welfare.

Now lets check the first statement

Mother Teresa - No doubt she was a nun and was doing her job well. Just take
another example just think your mom makes a fantastic dinner or
lunch or breakfast for you and you thoroughly enjoy it and you are
pleased, still will you call your mother a " CHEF " and would compare
her to a " CHEF " from any " RESTAURANT " ??? I guess no .... So
if we say Mother Teresa was nun and was doing her job well isn't it
a void statement because she didnt became a nun becoz she was
looking for a job and vise versa. She wud have settled her life and
wud have become a social activist ?? But she chose a path where
she dedicated her whole life to the needy people it was her inner call
and she continued till end, controlling your feelings and making
yourself restrictive is a very big achievement in itself.
She only spread love, affection and attention to those people who
almost lost their battle in life .. there are many nun's why don't
we have the pleasure of seeing another nun as of Mother Teresa's
callibre ???

Lord Gautam Budhdha - The day one realises the reason why he/she is born and
the real meaning of his/her life .. then at that point of time the
emotional , sentimental attachments just become worthless. Budhdha
initially in his life was a self-centered, lavish Prince till the Age of 29
It's very hard for anyone like to lead his entire life to preach and help
the mankind. So if anyone calls him he ran away leaving his family
behind then he/shud also understand the situation and the effect this
person has given till date to the world.

Jesus Christ - Well what can I say of this MESSENGER OF GOD .. if he is a rebel
then I will better call him a " PATHFINDER ".


Mahatma Gandhi - Rebel to get someone free , to give someone his right to live,
right to be happy is itself a biggest achievement. A person who showed
that " PEACE " is the only weapon which can transform a enemy to a
FRIEND is what Gandhi did all his life.


Sharpies, Hitler killed people in greed of somethings he was an extra ambitious person ..but then he never lived an easy life did he ??? his life went in killing other people so he himself never lived in peace he always had a fear of loosing / dieing so at the end he committed suicide .... The examples which I gave are of those people who lived for the right cause and have still left their footmarks which we do follow.

Okay now when we say we shud not believe things which doesnt have any proof ... Is okay but my only point is that this philosophy doesn't proove that these things doesn't exist. The most powerful thing in this world is your own will power with which you can overcome any damm thing and belief in God. After all we shud not forget that Science is man made and man is made by God.

The real MAGIC in life is " When you were born, you cried while the world rejoiced. Live your life in such a way that when you die the world cries while you rejoice "

Every coin has two sides its on us whether to check the two sides and then come to a conclusion or stick to only one side and make conclusions.

Sharpies your views please.
 

trope

Member
Messages
306
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
I believe that magic and science are, in a way, interchangable. It used to be believed that many phenomena were the result of magic, but science has slowly begun to find explanations for these. I believe that there will be many new explanations as time goes on.

Before I say this next bit, let me state: I do believe in God. I believe very strongly and sincerely. But, if there were an explanation found for how we came to be here on earth, I would be willing to believe it. Gandhi has said a similar thing: if science somehow proved that his belief of reincarnation was incorrect, he would believe the science.

I don't believe in a "Super Soul". I believe in "souls", but more as an abstract and intangible part of human beings, like a conscience or that proverbial "voice in the back of your head". This is why I would disagree with your list of "Super Souls".

Mother Teresa was definitely a nun who worked for good according to her faith. Think of this: when people were dying under her care, she would often baptise them before death. This was never a choice made by the dying, many of whom were Hindu and Muslim. She went against their beliefs by baptising them, something most people would agree is wrong. There is a lot of controversy about exactly how much good she did do. I'm not sure that she could be a so-called "Super Soul" when her means only justified her end, and not the end of the people she helped.

I believe Sharpies has pointed this out, but the Buddha (I am assuming we are talking about Siddharta Gautama, and not a different Buddha) did indeed leave behind a wife and child. If we ignore that, I'm sure he definitely was a good man. Religion has always been an integral part of India's culture, and committing yourself to spiritual enlightenment was not something odd to do. The Buddha just found a different way to do it, because he didn't agree with the Hindu caste system. This doesn't make him a "Super Soul". In theory, anyone could achieve what he did.

I'm not going to spend a lot of time talking to you about Jesus Christ, because it's obvious we won't agree. I don't believe that Jesus was the son of God, or any sort of messenger. I believe that he was a Jew who did some good things, and met a sad end; but according to the laws of that time, blasphemy was punishable by death, and by Jewish law, Jesus was committing blasphemy. In Jewish law (and by my beliefs), it is considered heresay to believe that God is divisible. Since Jesus claimed to be the son of God, and also God the son, he was claiming that God is a divisible entity. I believe he was just a man, not a "Super Soul".

Mahatma Gandhi is certainly a peace-loving man. He was raised in a place where peace was of the utmost importance, and from birth has been groomed for this role. He is not a "Super Soul", but certainly a wonderful person. He has responded to persecution and death by rebelling, which many other people have done. This is an obvious response, not a sign that he is somehow spiritually, magically, richer than any person.

And then there are things such as telepathy. I believe that telepathy isn't possible; accurate assumptions of a person's thoughts are. Especially when you know that person very well.

Reiki, I think, is more of the sufferer taking on the feelings of goodwill from the healer and using them. These feelings of goodwill are interpreted by the person receiving them, and it will give the person a hope, a strength that they can create within themselves in response. My best comparison would be: if someone is upset, and you crack a joke and laugh, they will eventually join in the laughter and feel better because of it.
 

sharpies

Active Member
Messages
1,385
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
It's fairly simple, I think.

Science does not have all the answers. Given time I think it will answer a lot of questions (even though we won't understand them all). Until then we have religion/magic.

It has pretty much been the same throughout all of history & each generation comes up with new answers that push some things into science & new questions that allows religion/magic to continue.

You may note that for the last couple of hundred years there has been a loosening of the religious grip as science pushes more things out of religion/magic, religion/magic continues to try to reclaim it's lost ground - the shepard wants his flock back.

Allan
 

Peter Parka

Well-Known Member
Messages
42,387
Reaction score
3
Tokenz
0.06z
I don't believe in real magic as such. There are just things that happen that we can't explain because of our finite brains when the Universe is infinate.
 

Sam

Active Member
Messages
649
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
Guys, this is just fantastic.. let me take the opportunity to thank my dear friends

Sharpies , Peter Parka , Trope for expressing their views very well and also well put up.

I have enjoyed this topic as usual but with it makes a difference when experienced members like u all join the discussion. Thanks.

***************************** I am coming up with some more views, right now I am coding something will get back when I reach home.

:)
 

elluko

Active Member
Messages
3,594
Reaction score
1
Tokenz
0.01z
OK Sharpies, if there isn't magic... then explain how you were able to make that post clear on the other side of the world, and I am able to see it a few minutes later????? They don't have a ship that's fast enough to get your message here that quick.

must be magic :eek

Technology= Magic
 

sharpies

Active Member
Messages
1,385
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
Luke that is so true.

Could you imagine taking someone from only 700 or 800 years ago, let alone 12,000 years ago, into say, a shopping mall. The doors open automatically, the stairs move by themselves, you hop into a small box & the building moves around you (elevator). There is internal lights without smoke, glass, mirrors & the food - sugar was introduced into Europe in the 1600's., so just give him a donut & watch him freak.

These are magical things that we definitely take for granted. I do have one small vice when it comes to automatic doors, as I approach them I move my hands apart as if I am opening them by magic - it may make me look stupid (I don't really care) but it's my way of remembering how far we have come technologically.

Allan
 
78,874Threads
2,185,387Messages
4,959Members
Back
Top