Is "Having" to Drill Anwar the Big Lie?

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Minor Axis

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I've read many articles today and have heard on the radio that Big Oil owns millions of acres of land with thousands of permits that they have never used! And if they gave the go ahead it would be 2017 before any oil came out of Anwar or off the shores of this country. People that is almost 10 years from now. This country needs to ween itself from oil.

I admit, I am basing my opinion on the media reports but if what I've stated is true, there is absolutely no need to go into Anwar. Oil is our devil, we need to exorcise it from our midst! Don't allow this Administration to manipulate our current crisis by helping out one of their favorite tax favored industries.

For your reading pleasure:
The Political Hook.

The Huffington Post.
 
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BadBoy@TheWheel

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How can I put this simple.

Permits to drill, doesn't mean you can just go drill.

Domestic drilling isn't going to bring the price of oil down by virtue of the oil produced so much as it will allowing the market to stabilize, building confidence on Wall Street, and letting third world countries know that we won't trade bodies for oil.

I am not going to go into great detail....But I have my way of knowing...
 

Minor Axis

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How can I put this simple.

Permits to drill, doesn't mean you can just go drill.

Domestic drilling isn't going to bring the price of oil down by virtue of the oil produced so much as it will allowing the market to stabilize, building confidence on Wall Street, and letting third world countries know that we won't trade bodies for oil.

I am not going to go into great detail....But I have my way of knowing...

I do see your current avatar is a big oil refinery. :) If the industry has thousands of unused permits, why are they not taking advantage of what they all ready have approval for? In your opinion why does Anwar have to be cracked? Why do we have to start drilling offshore?
 

BadBoy@TheWheel

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I do see your current avatar is a big oil refinery. :) If the industry has thousands of unused permits, why are they not taking advantage of what they all ready have approval for? In your opinion why does Anwar have to be cracked? Why do we have to start drilling offshore?

Basically a permit allows you to drill, it doesn't guarantee a find;)

A permit doesn't mean all the legalities of the lease/land agreement have been reached yet.

A permit doesn't mean that you have the talent at your disposal to retireve anything from the ground, and anyone can drill a water well.

And Anwar isn't the only option, my question is why doesn't anybody have a fundemental issue with people drilling off my coast? (Gulf of Mexico). It's always okay as long as it's in someone elses backyard, that's normally the attitude.

Fact: The regulations for drilling offshore are more strict than any set of environmental regulations on land regarding drilling.

Example: A drilling rig was fined and suspended from operation when MMS discovered a drilling hand urinating over the side.

I guess the question is simple, do you want a more stable market? If so then the US is going to have to step up and prove to Wall St. and the third world nations that we will make strides to be more self sufficient, or we can keep buying oil from kidnappers and rapists...I guess the choice is ours.
 

Minor Axis

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Ok, I'm not trying to argue with you just trying to understand. And my understanding is that all of the permits that have been labeled as not-used are on land, not off shore. And if these permits are the first step, hey, why not move forward with the ones they all ready have?

I also read that Clinton opened large areas during his term for oil & gas permits. It really sounds suspicious to me why the sudden push to drill in formerly forboten areas but these days I tend to run suspicious.

Peeing over the side? Oh come on, I do that all the time! :)
 

FreeWorkVest

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I believe the US charges $1 per barrel drilled. Same with lumber, something like 60 per tree - insane profits from an administration bought and sold by the oil and lumber industries
 

BadBoy@TheWheel

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Ok, I'm not trying to argue with you just trying to understand. And my understanding is that all of the permits that have been labeled as not-used are on land, not off shore. And if these permits are the first step, hey, why not move forward with the ones they all ready have?

I also read that Clinton opened large areas during his term for oil & gas permits. It really sounds suspicious to me why the sudden push to drill in formerly forboten areas but these days I tend to run suspicious.

Peeing over the side? Oh come on, I do that all the time! :)

Nope, good healthy debates are fun:) No arguing here.

Land permitting can be the devil;) It's much easier to drill offshore, politics wise. No landowners whos ass you have to kiss etc.

And i'll give you a hint at why the push (other countries are going it alone in the oil seeking business) pretty soon, we won't be deciding who we buy oil from...Someone else will.....At least that's my opinion:D
 

FreeWorkVest

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It is old, from the 90's. It was a frontline report about how the government leased out national resources to certain industries
 

Minor Axis

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One thing that really pissed me off when these Japanese ships lined up in Anchorage (starting in the 80s), loading up with trees to take them back to Japan to process them instead of us selling the plywood to them all ready finished. Your government trade policies at work... and look at us now dealing with China. It would be funny if we weren't the ones taking it in the shorts.

(sorry off topic)
 

Alien Allen

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I've read many articles today and have heard on the radio that Big Oil owns millions of acres of land with thousands of permits that they have never used! And if they gave the go ahead it would be 2017 before any oil came out of Anwar or off the shores of this country. People that is almost 10 years from now. This country needs to ween itself from oil.

I admit, I am basing my opinion on the media reports but if what I've stated is true, there is absolutely no need to go into Anwar. Oil is our devil, we need to exorcise it from our midst! Don't allow this Administration to manipulate our current crisis by helping out one of their favorite tax favored industries.

For your reading pleasure:
The Political Hook.

The Huffington Post.
Probably already been stated but prices now are driven by futures in addition to the dollar being more and more useless. If there is an expected oil source in 10 years that will affect the futures market.
 

Minor Axis

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Probably already been stated but prices now are driven by futures in addition to the dollar being more and more useless. If there is an expected oil source in 10 years that will affect the futures market.

Was something changed to allow futures to now drive commodity prices like oil, where before they were not?

BTW Alien Allen, nice to meet ya...
 

Minor Axis

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Maybe you can first tell us why you believe that the oil industry has "favored" tax treatment? This should be good.

All my posts are good, you said it yourself...

Very simple record profits, record prices for gas, they are stashing most of their profits in the bank, and they've got tax breaks, thanks Uncle Sam.

They'd love to drill--there are 10 billion barrels 3 miles off the coast of California.

And so while we are weening ourselves off oil (and I'm sure you'll tell us how that's going to happen), you are fine with paying hundreds of billions to the Mid East for oil instead of paying it to American companies and American workers--who will likely be in unions?

I just don't get the logic (or lack thereof).

Everything I've read talks about off shore drilling as a 10 year affair. If that is your preferred solution, you don't need to brag about your superior logic. Ever since the oil embargo of 72 I've been very aggravated that our government has not made getting off foreign oil a priority. But simply drilling for more oil is not a solution.

If your the expert on oil, maybe you can explain why the majority of oil permits all ready issued (according to the media) have gone unused?
 

Tim

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Bullshit--saying it doesn't make it so. The oil industry is one of if not the most heavily taxed industries in the world--even more so in Europe than here where they are paying far more for a gallon of gas. The oil industry profits are less than many other industries. Many tech companies are blowing oil companies away in margins of profit. Please--stop reading Al Franken's blog and educate yourself--I'm tired of doing it for you.



What about the rest of the world? And do you REALLY THINK IF THERE A PRACTICAL ALTERNATIVE THAT SOME COMPANY WOULD NOT HAVE COME UP WITH IT YET?



Again then--you prefer that we continue paying billions to fund middle east terrorism? I don't get you--wake up and smell the coffee--there is not going to be any revolutionary product in the next 10 years. The closest they have is Hydrogen Fuel Cell which is decades from being a practical solution. Like your "living wage for everyone" arguments you live in a liberal fantasy land of ideals. I have to deal in reality--I can't entertain the whimsical ideas that you do.



Because there's a ban on drilling that has to be lifted. You also need to build refineries. Of course, with your brilliant liberals in Congress desiring to impose windfall taxes on oil companies, which one of them is going to sink huge amounts of capital into building refineries? The only way they could do that is with government assistance, which immediately liberals would call "foul", "tax breaks for the rich" and blah, blah, blah. You made this bed and now you're lying in it. Every person that oppossed nuclear power development and oil exploration is responsible for high gas prices. In fact, I thought that's what liberals wanted--I don't know why Bush isn't being hailed as the great facilitator of alternative fuel develpment.

Wow! You are very quick to point out how you need to educate everyone around you... It's not a very desirable quality in a debate, especially when you are factually wrong with some of your statements.

Let me point a few out.
1. The oil industry is heavily taxed. But they are also very heavily subsidized. Congress has tried to put a real dollar amount to it and was only able to estimate it at $35 billion last year. But with the hundreds of programs it's almost impossible to get a real number.
2. There is nothing holding back oil companies from building new refineries. As a matter of fact between 1975 to 2000, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) received only one permit request for a new refinery. It is not in the best interest for them to build new refineries. Why would they? To drive down the cost of their own profits?
3. Oil companies hold lease rights to over 3,000,000 acres of land where they could drill tomorrow. They have over 9,000 drilling permits on land alone. They are numerous permits to drill at sea. But they aren't using them.
4. You here all this talk over Anwar... Why? Why don't we here about the Bakken oil formation in North Dakota? It holds the potential of 500 billion barrels of oil. Well, that's because they are already drilling there with new wells going up every day. But it's the smaller oil companies that are doing it and not the big 5... hell, there is even talk about state owned oil production. Wouldn't that be a kick in the ass to the big 5?
5. Oil prices can be attributed to a weak dollar, the merger of oil companies, speculation and pure greed.
It is not about supply and demand, so why the huge push for adding drilling permits when they aren't using the ones they already have?
 

dt3

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I also read that Clinton opened large areas during his term for oil & gas permits. It really sounds suspicious to me why the sudden push to drill in formerly forboten areas but these days I tend to run suspicious.
Clinton vetoed a bill passed by Congress that would have allowed drilling in ANWR. By your estimate of 9 years to see that oil at the pump, we would be using it today.
 

BadBoy@TheWheel

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Wow! You are very quick to point out how you need to educate everyone around you... It's not a very desirable quality in a debate, especially when you are factually wrong with some of your statements.

Let me point a few out.
1. The oil industry is heavily taxed. But they are also very heavily subsidized. Congress has tried to put a real dollar amount to it and was only able to estimate it at $35 billion last year. But with the hundreds of programs it's almost impossible to get a real number.
2. There is nothing holding back oil companies from building new refineries. As a matter of fact between 1975 to 2000, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) received only one permit request for a new refinery. It is not in the best interest for them to build new refineries. Why would they? To drive down the cost of their own profits?
3. Oil companies hold lease rights to over 3,000,000 acres of land where they could drill tomorrow. They have over 9,000 drilling permits on land alone. They are numerous permits to drill at sea. But they aren't using them.
4. You here all this talk over Anwar... Why? Why don't we here about the Bakken oil formation in North Dakota? It holds the potential of 500 billion barrels of oil. Well, that's because they are already drilling there with new wells going up every day. But it's the smaller oil companies that are doing it and not the big 5... hell, there is even talk about state owned oil production. Wouldn't that be a kick in the ass to the big 5?
5. Oil prices can be attributed to a weak dollar, the merger of oil companies, speculation and pure greed.
It is not about supply and demand, so why the huge push for adding drilling permits when they aren't using the ones they already have?

Bakken is starting to come online, as we speak. That has been an expensive, and arduous task to drill, and exploit the starter wells.

That field is going to take years to fully develop.

I have said it time and time again, permits do not equate to ability, they do not allow someone to run in and drill.

I don't think folks have any idea how regulations work on land drilling or offshore drilling, and that's typically not public information either, not at the level I am talking about. Everyone needs to face the fact, oil is about wheeling and dealing, it's not about society, it's about money.

The unfortunate fact is, is that since the bust of the 80's I think oil industry officials have been stocking the war chest and have vowed to not let it happen again, and when folks talk about oil being evil, think for a minute how many people oil employs.

In a short answer...Again, NO ANWAR ISN'T the only reputable source of oil we have, but as I have said before as well, making people happy at the pump, starts with making the bastards on Wall St. happy.

And last but not least, we have been entering into dangerous times at least so far as I can see for the last 8 years it has been prevalent, we have put a commodity in the hands of our government, it's no longer supply/demand, and publicly traded, it's part of the deals politicians make for their buddies.

Imagine if it were food;)

We can argue/debate about Oil the evil empire, embargos, subsidizing and tax breaks, Bush said NO to tax breaks for big oil this year, I know nobody feels bad but bottom line is something has to be done, bicker and piss and moan all you want, but solar power, full electric powered cars....Isn't here yet

Mark my words, there is a GLOBAL MARKET that is in fear of what the middle east is going to do with the 10% of the oil they supply us, issues in Nigeria, Russia deciding to NOT deal with us but China, and the rumors about drilling off the coast of Cuba (not confirmed).

Let oil hit 150-160 a barrel, and you will all let oil companies drill in your backyard when a loaf of bread hits 25$ a loaf.

I sound a little jerky, but I don't mean to. Picture this if you will on the topic of permits:

Cost to drill your "average" oil/gas well (btw seldom do you find much oil;))

1-2.5million dollars from geo to completion, now that's assuming NO PROBLEMS and this is on land mind you, you can multiply that by 4-5 times for offshore.

Oh no.....it's a bad well, too much CO2, too much water....Or just plain ole dry hole, it will cost you another 250,000 to P&A and pay the penalties or make it an injection well and pay the government.

So there is on average 2-3 million you have paid.....For water you can't even drink

How many of those do you think your average oil company is going to allow to be drilled? Remember folks, finding oil actual OIL not gas....Is still part education and part luck, and it's still about trying to get the drill bit to pay zones, which is REALLY FUCKING LUCK:D
 

Minor Axis

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Bullshit--saying it doesn't make it so.

Gas is at record prices and oil companies are making record profits whether you like it or not.

Again then--you prefer that we continue paying billions to fund middle east terrorism?

I've never said or implied that. It's just your method of blowing up my statements.

The closest they have is Hydrogen Fuel Cell which is decades from being a practical solution. Like your "living wage for everyone" arguments you live in a liberal fantasy land of ideals. I have to deal in reality--I can't entertain the whimsical ideas that you do.

Honda is leasing a hydrogen fuel cell car in California this month. In both the quoted article below and a recent Popular Science feature asserted a 100 square mile solar farm could replace most of the fossil fuels used in this country. Not to mention all the other alternate energy sources like wind, water, and bio fuels. You need to open your mind.

Business Week Article:
Theoretically, Stirling dish farms with a total area of 100 miles square could replace all the fossil fuels now burned to generate electricity in the entire U.S. What happens in the California desert over the next few years could determine whether thermal solar power can help end the dominance of fossil fuels.
 

Minor Axis

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Clinton vetoed a bill passed by Congress that would have allowed drilling in ANWR. By your estimate of 9 years to see that oil at the pump, we would be using it today.

I was not referring to Anwar. I believe it was some other area but I have not been able to find a link for it.
 

BadBoy@TheWheel

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I was not referring to Anwar. I believe it was some other area but I have not been able to find a link for it.


I do think one thing we all pretty much seem to agree on, is that Anwar seems to be a hot topic with only GW, realitically it's not the only solution.

Conservation is the only long term fix really. But he seems to have his sights set on Anwar for some reason...It baffles even me, but I do have my theories:ninja
 

Minor Axis

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I do think one thing we all pretty much seem to agree on, is that Anwar seems to be a hot topic with only GW, realitically it's not the only solution.

Conservation is the only long term fix really. But he seems to have his sights set on Anwar for some reason...It baffles even me, but I do have my theories:ninja

I agree.

This administration has never promoted conservation of any kind. Their energy policy is drill more wells, make lots-o-money. The fundamental problem with many people is that instead of viewing the environment as something we live in, they view it as a commodity to be used up for profit.
 
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