Is change possible?

[Obdurate]

So clearly, you people have your opinions about what should be done and what shouldn't be done. So I ask, is it even truly possible to get the kind of change you want?

 

[groundpounder]

my ideals say yes, my realism says no.

I'm an idealist

 

[GraceAbounds]

So clearly, you people have your opinions about what should be done and what shouldn't be done. So I ask, is it even truly possible to get the kind of change you want?

What do you mean? Could you please elaborate?

 

[Obdurate]

What I mean Gracie is that people here, and elsewhere, have their ideal society. Some are conservative, some are liberal, some are anarchist, some are socialist, some are fascist, etc. What I ask is, is it even possible to have a large change? I know small changes can be accomplished, but I'll use me as an example to make it more clear.

I want an anarchist society. One without government, authority, prejudice, private property, and some other things that the scary circle A means, but I don't actually think it's gonna happen. If it does, then it'll be many many years in the future. Basically I'm like GP in that way. I still fight for it but in my heart I realize it'll never completely happen.

 

[Peter Parka]

Some things I want will happen, others wont. And when one problem is solved another will rear its head.

 

[thatguyjeff]

I think we are (in the USA anyhow) about as close as we are going to get to an ideal society in my lifetime. My idea of an ideal society anyway.

 

[Minor Axis]

I think change is possible referencing the U.S. but you have to have an electorate who really gives a damn and are willing to elect talented people.

 

[Hans]

It was a huge political deal to the whole world when this new America country changed leadership to different parties every 4 years after the first president.

Anyways, anarchy will never hold up, ever. Many people crave and desire power, eventually turning into a dictatorship.

 

[Obdurate]

It was a huge political deal to the whole world when this new America country changed leadership to different parties every 4 years after the first president.

Anyways, anarchy will never hold up, ever. Many people crave and desire power, eventually turning into a dictatorship.

I love how the anarchist stance gets singled out. Don't really feel like getting into it considering this isn't really an anarchy debate but yes, it could work. And no, not eventually turning into a dictatorship. The big problem is getting there, not maintaining it.

 

[Butler]

(How did you get all that negative rep in the first place, Ob? Just the sig? Or do they really hate you?)

Yeah, of course change is possible, but it takes time. The United States exists because people wanted change. The Holocaust...that was a change. It happened for a while. Anarchy? I doubt it. Why? Because there is no way to enforce it, and it is in human nature to seek power as a leader. Other forms of government are made possible by the use of force and propaganda if the people don't really want it. Change happens. Just not immediately and it requires people to step up and take real action.

 

[Obdurate]

Why did you single out anarchy?

It's also not human nature to pursue power as a leader. It's mostly a bi-product of the system we have set up. That's not to say that some individuals won't step up and try to gain power, however, they'll be stopped. You think anarchists can't topple authority figures? They may not be taking out presidents now but history has shown that anarchists have had more impact in society than people give them credit for. If we had an anarchist society, and someone tried to take power, they'd be stopped, no doubt. It's just such a generic, off base argument against it that everyone uses.


So can we just discuss what the original intent of the thread was now, and leave the anarchy comments alone? It's not a thread about if MY change is possible.

Edit: Oh, the neg rep thing is from this thread:
http://www.offtopicz.net/31996-neg-rep-obdurate-e-contest-neg.html

You can neg rep me all you want

 

[Butler]

Well I hope that was down. I did say I disapproved...

Oh well. I singled out anarchy because other government forms (although anarchy is a lack thereof) can stay in power through public support or through force. With anarchy, sure anarchists can maintain anarchy, but you need everyone there to support anarchy fully.

 

[Obdurate]

Only thing I'd like to say is that people already live like anarchists -- intentionally or unintentionally, to various degrees -- so it's not as far fetched as people like to claim.

So, anybody else? Do you think your beliefs will be possible?

 

[Fetlock]

I think we are (in the USA anyhow) about as close as we are going to get to an ideal society in my lifetime. My idea of an ideal society anyway.

Don’t look, the emperor has no clothes.