If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.

[Greatest I am]

If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.

http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

God does not follow the first rule at all.

The bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or sin.

This shows that what many thinks is our number one moral value was completely ignored by God.

Is God immoral or has man gotten morality wrong?

If God was right, then are we to believe that fathers are to bury their children instead of the way people think in that children should bury their parents?

John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.”

On earth as it is in heaven.

If you had God’s power to setthe conditions for atonement, would you step up yourself or would you send your child to die?

Regards
DL

 

[skyblue]

is god real?.....as in fact

 

[CityGirl]

Per Tony Warren....

Revelation 13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." ​

In Revelation chapter thirteen, verse eight, Jesus is referred to as, 'The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.' Since Christ went to the cross at an appointed and specific place in time (which was about 2000 years ago), some Christians are unsure just what this phrase actually means. This is understandable, as the language there is somewhat difficult.

When the verse is carefully studied and all things are considered, it becomes clear that God is speaking about the 'eternal election of Grace,' which spans time. Note that God is defining those unsaved who do not have their names written in the Lamb's book of life. This 'book of Life' signifies God's record of those who will be regenerated or raised up unto new life in Christ Jesus. In Him are these Saints under the immutable purpose of God for his Elect.
Christ being slain from the foundation of the world illustrates not only that He was foreordained to be slain, but also that the efficacy, or the beneficial effects of that death, is the same as if that sacrifice had been made before the creation of the world. Thus, Old testament saints are washed clean in Christ's blood the same as we are today. In other words, the efficacy of Christ's sacrifice is not limited by time. God had already chosen who He would Save before creation, and had thus already ordained the Saviour to shed His blood for them, to make this possible. their Salvation wasn't something which could be thwarted, it was something which was as good as 'done' from the time that God ordained it. http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/faq/slainfounda.html

It's a big club and you ain't in it. ~ Geo Carlin

 

[Greatest I am]

is god real?.....as in fact

I am not questioning his reality at the moment but his morals to those who believe he does.

Care to speak to the moral issue?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Thanks for confirming my quote.

Care to speak to the morality issue?

Regards
DL

 

[Stone]

If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.

http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

.............................

Looks like you are starting out making an argument that voting for Al Gore is a rejection of God?
Did you notice that Johnathan Haidt didn't include independent voters as being open minded. He didn't mention them at all.
That's a very closed minded and obviously biased position to take.

You posted that video before.
Run out of relevant hate oriented vids?

 

[Stone]

..............

God does not follow the first rule at all.

..................

The generally accepted first moral rule God presented was

"You shall have no other gods before me."


What moral rule did Johnathan Haidt present that God broke?
All I saw in the introduction was incredible bias as a foundation for logic.
It was an interesting vid and had points of value, but why did you post it as a supporting argument?
Would you please clarify what you mean with that sentence because what follows looks a lot like sophistry to me when I search for clarity.

 

[Stone]

Per Tony Warren............................

Who is Tony Warren?
I followed your link
http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/faq/slainfounda.html
and read the 'about' relating to the site.
http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/editor.html

We can't emphasize enough that The Mountain Retreat is a Center for Biblical Theology and Eschatology in its truest sense. It is not our ministry, but a ministry that is a joint venture by all of us. As God's Covenant family of "Sound Bible Believing" Christians, we rejoice in the common bond of His Holy Mountain, and are dedicated to serving the Father by sending forth the true gospel message into all the world. We wholly believe the Bible is our only source of authoritative doctrine today, and recognize that all scripture is inspired by God and fully trustworthy. We are joined as a Covenant family indivisible and faithful even in trials and tribulations.

"Yet setteth He the poor on high from affliction, and maketh him families like a flock. The righteous shall see it and rejoice." -Psalms 107:41-42

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Not a source I would have picked for logic.
Looks more like theology used to rationalize a preconceived notion, but I admit, I find theological discussion as intense as this hard to follow.


Your link did present this statement as it goal to prove in what ever manner exercised:

The Covenant of grace for the Elect existed before the law. Moreover, the law that was given later, cannot disannul it, because it's written in the blood of Christ from before creation. i.e., Salvation has always been by faith in the blood of Christ. It was never of keeping the law, which not one of us could possibly do. It was always a Covenant of Grace, which the law couldn't disannul.
Christ's sacrifice was not limited by time, and this truth is very important to the faithful. Time (thus the timekeepers, the Sun, Moon, and stars) was created for man, not for God. He is infinite! So though time must unfold for man, God, being omniscient and omnipresent, sees these things as completed. He is outside of time! Those who are under the blood of Christ, He predestinated it, willed it, and saw it accomplished from the foundation of the world. But though God saw it done, the redemption still had to occur in the fullness of time 'for the Elect' who live in time. This is why we have the language of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the World. It is portraying the timelessness of Christ's Sacrifice, to make possible 'The eternal election of Grace.'

This I can relate to "He is outside of time! "
Time is a relationship among mass, energy and forces ( gravity being one of the influences in relativity ) that is realized by science and part of our physical reality.
Before the creation of mass, energy, and the forces related to them ( this is not the big bang event, that was only the expansion of those elements) time did not exist nor would it exist now if the universe were to be suddenly extinguished from what we percieve as reality......this is science, not religion.

He predestinated it, willed it, and saw it accomplished from the foundation of the world.

With that logic, he just negated any reason for his theological debate.......what happens is predestined and there is no served purpose.

And this is why I don't get in to many theological debates.
I do often think the people making them at this level aren't intellectually credible.
It's mostly word play, imho.

 

[Greatest I am]

The generally accepted first moral rule God presented was

"You shall have no other gods before me."

Would you say that that rule serves the self or serves others?
Should morality serve the self or serve others?

What moral rule did Johnathan Haidt present that God broke?

The first. Harm/care of children. God had his son needlessly murdered.

Regards
DL

 

[pjbleek]

opcorn2:opcorn2:opcorn2:opcorn2:opcorn2:opcorn2:opcorn2:opcorn2:opcorn2:opcorn2:

 

[Stone]

Would you say that that rule serves the self or serves others?




........................

I'd say it's the first of ten Commandments.
Laws are generated to be observed.

 

[Greatest I am]

So much for your morality.

Regards
DL

 

[pjbleek]

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

 

[Stone]

......................




The first. Harm/care of children. ..............

Regards
DL

That's morality that Haidt devised from neural and hormonal programming. ( his words )
That's a product of evolution, success of a species increases along with the efficiency of protection in early stages of life, so it's logical for a successful specie to be 'hard wired' genetically for that protection/disposition.

of interest:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/07/maternal-instinct-is-wired-into-the-brain/

http://www.livescience.com/19108-baby-love-human-brain.html

http://www.livescience.com/1955-love-hormone-improves-mother-child-bond.html

And this one especially----> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_investment

To the best of my knowledge/understanding of God, he's not biological and as you know I don't hold the Bible as the inerrant word of God, and the theological word play by Warren doesn't make sense to me
I am curious why you would accept such a theological treatise as factual evidence in your own treatise..... that would have to project God as a biological being for DNA evolution to be a factor.


I think I'll just call Bullshit on that....


But anyway.....
So far as morality goes, if that were to be yours or Haidt's first rule, why do you violate it by arguing in the drug threads to put children in harm's way by encouraging a legal culture of drug abuse rather than decriminalizing drug use/abuse like the successful Portuguese example I have given you?
You actually violate that 'first rule' concerning evolutionary hard wiring of parental investment for the sake of......what? Pleasure?
Seems selfish to me.
What kind of morality calls for putting children in that kind of danger?

 

[Stone]

So much for your morality.

Regards
DL

See my above post.


I really don't see your argument for protecting children by building a dangerous drug environment for them to live in.
Do you hate children so much that you'd use them as pawns in an argument to legalize drug use and abuse to the point of creating a culture of legalized drug abuse?
Or just so removed from reality in your religious agenda, you are unable to realize the hazards ?
Or....what?

 

[Minor Axis]

I think I'll just call Bullshit on that....

For lack of anything better, that does seem to be your default answer for anything you disagree with.

 

[Stone]

For lack of anything better, that does seem to be your default answer for anything you disagree with.

Well....it has been used a lot for much of your logic, that is true.
But I did give reasons which you refused to address.