Government

[Exact]

I'm just not sure what to think about anymore. One minute i hear we are going Socialist, another that we already are, and also that we never will be. I know that if our Gov. isn't careful we are going down a pretty bumpy road (with the economy and all) but how do you think we'll get out of it? And what do you think about the socialist remarks??? {true opinion please}:humm:

 

[Alien Allen]

we are not socialist but we are headed in that direction

there is no solution unless people get fed up.

not sure how old you are but the republicans had the country in its hands after 2 years of Clinton with the Contract with America agenda. Sadly like all politicians they let the power get to them and also let the democrats put out bull shit about slashing money from programs that were outright lies. The reps never knew how to respond to that. So we end up with an ever expanding govt.

until there are public financed elections nothing will change. The politicians are on the stump 24/7/365 looking for money to run their campaigns.

 

[Exact]

we are not socialist but we are headed in that direction

there is no solution unless people get fed up.

not sure how old you are but the republicans had the country in its hands after 2 years of Clinton with the Contract with America agenda. Sadly like all politicians they let the power get to them and also let the democrats put out bull shit about slashing money from programs that were outright lies. The reps never knew how to respond to that. So we end up with an ever expanding govt.

until there are public financed elections nothing will change. The politicians are on the stump 24/7/365 looking for money to run their campaigns.

Huh... Well i'm only 15, but i like to at least try and keep up with whats going on. As far as the Clinton thing I had no clue..

 

[Alien Allen]

Huh... Well i'm only 15, but i like to at least try and keep up with whats going on. As far as the Clinton thing I had no clue..

Clinton made the mistake of having his wife head an effort to get national health care. He also did several other things that moderate people did not approve of.

By the 2nd year enough moderates had decided enough was enough and at the same time the republicans got on message. Look up the Contract with America. It was a list of things the reps would do if they got control of congress.

The message resonated and for the first time in my lifetime of over 50 years the democrats lost control of the house of representatives.

You would see the same back lash again at this years elections but the republicans are led by idiots and have no similar message.

Some argue for term limits but I live in Michigan where we have them and it is nothing but a revolving door of incompetents.

Congrats to you for having interest at your age. Sadly not enough do and we end up with such abysmal numbers that show up to vote.

 

[ClicheGuevara]

God I hate politics. . I use to want to be a politician when I was a kid, but then I realized that I have morals and wasn't cut out for it.

 

[Azazel]

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[edgray]

I'm just not sure what to think about anymore. One minute i hear we are going Socialist, another that we already are, and also that we never will be. I know that if our Gov. isn't careful we are going down a pretty bumpy road (with the economy and all) but how do you think we'll get out of it? And what do you think about the socialist remarks??? {true opinion please}:humm:

The US is a LONG way from even entering socialist territory... as an outsider, this whole "socialist/marxist/facist/communist" line the right are shouting is just fear mongering. I mean, come on, which one is it?

 

[darkcgi]

They put words on it to help communicate what they are talking about
the IST
we are a long way toward being sane

 

[Peter Parka]

Dont worry, the USA is nowhere near turning into a socialist state and you guys are far too paranoid over it, thought you might have learned something from McCarthyism and red bashing. Obama would be considered a hard right politician if he was in the UK.

 

[Artemis]

Well, the US likes the idea of not having to pay for anything and to have everyone being healthy and happy. That's not going to happen. Like the healthcare debate...
1) Where are we gonna get the money?
2) Are we in DIRE need of healthcare?
3) What will having 'free' healthcare do to private businesses?

In Oregon, they are proposing prop 66+67 which want to tax large businesses to pay for education. They claim that the businesses are just going to pay instead of the people. But are the businesses going to pay out of their own pocket? No, they're going to raise prices, just screwing the citizens even more. I'm just pissed that the government has all these ideas to improve everyone's life, but has no money to back them up. The only way they are going to get any money is to raise taxes. That's all they know how to do. What they should be working on is the economy, but not a waste of money like Cash for Clunkers.

 

[Accountable]

I'm just not sure what to think about anymore. One minute i hear we are going Socialist, another that we already are, and also that we never will be. I know that if our Gov. isn't careful we are going down a pretty bumpy road (with the economy and all) but how do you think we'll get out of it? And what do you think about the socialist remarks??? {true opinion please}:humm:

The problem with labels is that they can be used to deny as well as describe. Nazis and fascists called themselves socialist as well.

I'm hoping you haven't taken US history yet. Keep these questions alive and do your own research. The answers will begin to come just before the semester exams, when your head is so full of useless facts that new ones just flow out of your ears and down your back. We teachers want you to pass, so we don't test those questions too much if we don't have to, so you might miss it.

Study up on Woodrow Wilson. Some say that's when it started. Others wait until FDR and all his socialist programs. There are powerful people in our country that would like nothing more than to have people completely dependent on the government. Barack Obama indisputably works for some of them.

As you study to form your own opinions, remember that the United States is different from the other nations. We started differently; our history is different; our culture is different; our government is different. Human nature's desire to be like everybody else have caused us to stray far from our ideals. Different is not bad, and acting like everybody else is not necessarily good.

Good luck on your journey. :thumbup

 

[Meirionnydd]

The problem with labels is that they can be used to deny as well as describe. Nazis and fascists called themselves socialist as well.

I'm hoping you haven't taken US history yet. Keep these questions alive and do your own research. The answers will begin to come just before the semester exams, when your head is so full of useless facts that new ones just flow out of your ears and down your back. We teachers want you to pass, so we don't test those questions too much if we don't have to, so you might miss it.

Study up on Woodrow Wilson. Some say that's when it started. Others wait until FDR and all his socialist programs. There are powerful people in our country that would like nothing more than to have people completely dependent on the government. Barack Obama indisputably works for some of them.

As you study to form your own opinions, remember that the United States is different from the other nations. We started differently; our history is different; our culture is different; our government is different. Human nature's desire to be like everybody else have caused us to stray far from our ideals. Different is not bad, and acting like everybody else is not necessarily good.

Good luck on your journey. :thumbup

In a sense, yes, but ideologically speaking, Fascism billed itself as almost the complete opposite of Socialism. Fascist economic policy favored a more corporatist approach, as opposed to public ownership, if anything.

Here's a quote I find particularly interesting.

...Fascism [is] the complete opposite of…Marxian Socialism, the materialist conception of history of human civilization can be explained simply through the conflict of interests among the various social groups and by the change and development in the means and instruments of production.... Fascism, now and always, believes in holiness and in heroism; that is to say, in actions influenced by no economic motive, direct or indirect. And if the economic conception of history be denied, according to which theory men are no more than puppets, carried to and fro by the waves of chance, while the real directing forces are quite out of their control, it follows that the existence of an unchangeable and unchanging class-war is also denied - the natural progeny of the economic conception of history. And above all Fascism denies that class-war can be the preponderant force in the transformation of society.....

 

[nova]

In a sense, yes, but ideologically speaking, Fascism billed itself as almost the complete opposite of Socialism. Fascist economic policy favored a more corporatist approach, as opposed to public ownership, if anything.

There's a really thin line there though. Not a whole lot of functional difference between the state owning everything and making all the decisions and private entities owning things and the state making the decisions...

 

[Peter Parka]

There's a really thin line there though. Not a whole lot of functional difference between the state owning everything and making all the decisions and private entities owning things and the state making the decisions...

Killing and torturing people for being Jewish or Communist is kinda different though.

 

[Meirionnydd]

There's a really thin line there though. Not a whole lot of functional difference between the state owning everything and making all the decisions and private entities owning things and the state making the decisions...

Well, there's a few fundamental differences you gloss over there. Theoretically, Socialists disagree with capitalism on the notion that it concentrates wealth in the hands of a small segment of the population and thus, advocate the means of production to be in the hands of the 'workers', which can be done by methods other than complete state control, such as a workers corporative.

Fascists, on the other hand, don't see a problem with that situation, they support the notion of society being controlled by a small elite. Democracy, and majority rule, to them, is seen as incompatible with effective governance of the state.

Fascism marries together a totalitarian governmental system with an economic structure, that will never represent the interests of the people, as it was so intended.

I see a difference there, as Socialism = State ownership of the means of production, to benefit the majority of individuals in society. Fascism = Close relationship between corporate interests and government operating in order to benefit a small elite in society.

Of course that's all theoretical, in practice it would probably work closer to your analysis.