Don’t kid yourself, we can all be evil

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GraceAbounds

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Don’t kid yourself, we can all be evil

Three devastating experiments suggest we are all capable of terrible acts. But Bryan Appleyard asks the man who devised one what it proves

Today — Easter Sunday — is the day on which we were promised, through the resurrection of Christ, that evil would be conquered. It has not happened yet. Evil is as potent a force in human affairs as it ever was. It is also as much of a puzzle. What is it? Why is it? Where does evil reside? In the universe, in society or in you and me?
Three devastating psychological experiments in the 20th century seemed to suggest answers to these questions. The first — the Asch conformity experiment — showed that people could be led into denying the evidence of their own eyes by their desire to conform, blindly to accept the authority of the group. The second — the Milgram experiment — showed that people were prepared to subject others to potentially lethal electric shocks because they were encouraged to do so by authority figures. And the third — the Stanford prison experiment (SPE) — showed that perfectly ordinary well-balanced people could be turned into savage tyrants or cowering victims simply by the situations in which they found themselves.
Now Philip Zimbardo, the mastermind behind the SPE, has written his own account of the experiment and its meaning, and of his role in the investigations of the horrific — and, crucially, photographed — abuses at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison. Zimbardo’s book The Lucifer Effect: How Good People Turn Evil (Rider, £18.99) is a polemic. The author believes passionately that anybody can “turn evil”. He does not believe in evil as a disposition — a character trait — but as the product of a situation. Evil thus resides not in people but in the system that creates these situations.
The experiment, conducted in 1971, could not have been more simple nor, on the face of it, more harmless. Student volunteers were divided into prisoners and guards. The prisoners were taken to a mock-up jail in Stanford University where the guards imposed a regime designed to suppress individuality and humiliate.
With horrific speed the guards turned into ever more creative abusers and, occasional rebellions apart, the prisoners into pathetic cowering deindividualised wrecks. The fact that they all knew the situation was entirely artificial did nothing to stop the slide into barbarity.
Watching it all with forensic detachment was Zimbardo, whose future wife Christina Maslach, a social psychologist, joined the experiment’s “parole board”. He admits he was drawn into the increasingly desperate logic of the situation. But Maslach was horrified and persuaded him to cut the SPE from its planned two weeks to six days on ethical grounds. Would he do it again?
“The answer is yes. Do I feel remorse about the kids’ suffering? Yes, but I’ve worked hard all these years to make sure the gain is worth the cost and I’ve done it — in lectures, I work in prison reform, I helped change one legal ruling based on the research. It did a lot of good.”
When the Abu Ghraib abuses came to light in 2004 Zimbardo saw striking similarities with the SPE. Isolated within the confines of the prison, a group of guards expanded their assigned roles to include horrific acts of abuse against Iraqi prisoners. Zimbardo was struck by the instant reactions of the army authorities — that this was just a case of a few bad apples: “How could they possibly know that?” he asks.
For him the bad-apple theory is never right. It is the rotten barrel that turns the apples bad. He provided evidence for the defence of one of the guards — Ivan “Chip” Frederick — who, he argued, had no pathology preceding the incidents to suggest he was a bad apple. His evidence was rejected and Frederick received an eight-year sentence.
At the heart of the bad-apple argument is a theory of evil. This is that it resides within individuals. Evil, for Zimbardo, is in the system, not the individual. The extraordinary and unique plasticity of the human brain enables us to create systems and roles that engender evil. That very plasticity, however, can offer hope. Zimbardo believes that if we accept the lessons of these experiments we can construct better systems. Furthermore we should educate for heroism.
There was a hero at Abu Ghraib — Joseph Darby, an extravagantly ordinary individual who passed on the pictures of abuse to higher authorities — and in most theatres of evil, heroes emerge, albeit in a minority. Parents, Zimbardo believes, should get away from the “don’t be a hero” advice often given to children and replace it with active encouragement to speak out against evil.
Is this strictly situational explanation of evil the right conclusion to draw from these three sensational experiments?
The first thing to note is the context. Solomon Asch’s conformity experiments were conducted in 1951, Stanley Milgram’s obedience to authority experiments in 1963 and the SPE eight years later. Milgram had specifically set out to explain the way Germans had so easily accepted the Holocaust, and both Nazism and Stalinism cast their terrible shadows over all these experiments. All three studies can in fact be seen as responses to the 20th century phenomenon of industrialised evil. Confronted with Auschwitz, the normal human response is: how could anybody do that? Implicit in that response is the statement: I couldn’t.
But the experiments show we could. Nothing in the volunteers’ background indicated the possibility of evil behaviour. These people were you and me.
The simple bad-apple argument is an inadequate response to Abu Ghraib. This was a systemic failure in the US military that created a climate in which Iraqi prisoners could be regarded as sub-human. But bad appleism is also challenged by Christian theology. Christ rose on this day as a sign that we could be redeemed from the original sin.
This, for Christians, lies at the heart of theodicy — the explanation of the ways of God to man. Evil exists because of our free will and disobedience. Why a good, omnipotent God should allow this to happen has been the subject of 2,000 years of agonised and inconclusive debate. But the implication of the idea of original sin is clear: nobody can cast the first stone because nobody is free from sin.
Furthermore the situationist conclusion drawn from these experiments has been challenged by psychologists who point out that the responses were not uniform. Some did indeed refuse to accept the opportunity for evil. They did this either by walking away — a passive acceptance of evil reflecting Edmund Burke’s statement, “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing” — or heroically challenging the evil-doing system.
If there are such varied responses, such heroism, then surely character — disposition — must play a part? Intuitively this feels convincing. It is, for example, possible but not strictly plausible to explain Hitler solely as a force unleashed by the system. There do seem to be people unusually endowed with a capacity for evil. One might say such people are unleashed by a system; but could it not equally plausibly be said that such people create the evil system?
And finally there is an awkward logical problem with the purely systemic explanation. Systems engender evil, says Zimbardo. But systems are made by humans. Society is a human construct. Blaming systems or society may reduce the burden of guilt on the individual, but it does nothing to exculpate humanity. We systematically do evil. Zimbardo blames this on the plasticity of the human brain. But who is doing the moulding? Only humans can be placed in the dock.
This is the ultimate justification for the concept of original sin. Evil exists only in the human realm. A lion is innocent of murder when it kills a gazelle; humans are uniquely guilty when they herd others of their kind into gas chambers. Systemically or individually, we and we alone are responsible for these rivers of blood and oceans of tears. The human truth of the need for a god to die for this unendurable guilt is why, in spite of our disbelief, we still call this day Easter Sunday.

Don’t kid yourself, we can all be evil-News-UK-TimesOnline
 
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Tegan

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Every human has a dark side, every human has the capacity for immense evil. What separates inherently good people from evil people is that evil people actually act on their dark side.

I don't care who you are, everyone has thought about killing someone they really hate. You've probably thought about it, planned how you would do it and how you would get away with it. What separates you from a monster that actually goes and does it? Well, that's the real question is it. You could call it a conscience , you could call it morales. In any case, there are some humans who just don't have the mental block that stops them from performing the acts their dark side covertly thinks about.
 

GraceAbounds

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Every human has a dark side, every human has the capacity for immense evil. What separates inherently good people from evil people is that evil people actually act on their dark side.

I don't care who you are, everyone has thought about killing someone they really hate. You've probably thought about it, planned how you would do it and how you would get away with it. What separates you from a monster that actually goes and does it? Well, that's the real question is it. You could call it a conscience , you could call it morales. In any case, there are some humans who just don't have the mental block that stops them from performing the acts their dark side covertly thinks about.

I totally agree Tegan. After having 3 kids, I see them being instinctively manipulative or selfish. It is a real eye opener. Every mom I talk to states the same thing. These things are not taught. Most parents are going to demonstrate and teach the complete opposite. But these kids exhibit these behaviors before they can even form full sentences. Weird stuff, but children are still such wonderful blessings.
 

BreakfastSurreal

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shoot, my DOG is manipulative. And grace, you say these things aren't taught, and they aren't DIRECTLY taught, but they are learned...when kids learn they CAN get away with things, they will take every opportunity they can to do so. My niece is a great example. Next time I'm over at their house I'm going to take apicture of their walls. It's like a 2 year old's crayon mural...yeah...they can't control her and it's pretty sad, theres 3 adults there.
 

GraceAbounds

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shoot, my DOG is manipulative. And grace, you say these things aren't taught, and they aren't DIRECTLY taught, but they are learned...when kids learn they CAN get away with things, they will take every opportunity they can to do so. My niece is a great example. Next time I'm over at their house I'm going to take apicture of their walls. It's like a 2 year old's crayon mural...yeah...they can't control her and it's pretty sad, theres 3 adults there.

I think you are misunderstanding me or maybe I am not being clear. Of course bad things can be taught to kids. I totally agree with you. My point is that we are born with some bad already in us that needs to be taught/disciplined out of us.
 

Tim

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I think you are misunderstanding me or maybe I am not being clear. Of course bad things can be taught to kids. I totally agree with you. My point is that we are born with some bad already in us that needs to be taught/disciplined out of us.

I completely disagree with that. What "bad" do you think is hardwired into the brain that an infant has when it's born? I guess it all depends on your definition of "bad"
A child learns from the day it is born, if it has bad traits, then those were learned since birth.

Example: A baby when hungry will cry and over time he will learn that when he cries, he will be picked up by his mother. So with this new found information, the baby may cry to be picked up and held. If this baby is picked up EVERY time it cries, even when he is not hungry, wet, discomforted etc. you may end up with a baby that cries all the time. This is something that was learned by the baby... in a way, you taught him to cry for attention, and if this behavior is reinforced every time the baby cries for attention you will end up with a VERY spoiled child that will scream and yell in the candy isle because they KNOW that they will always get their way.
 

GraceAbounds

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Did you read my first couple of posts Tim? Do you have any children?

I would never say a baby is bad for crying. All traits are not learned though as you are suggesting. About half are learned and half are genetic. At least that is what science currently holds to be true.

My first couple of posts describe bad or negative or inappropriate behavior or how ever you want to label it. Things like being manipulative (not in the way you described) or by being selfish or hitting. We are born with the flight or fight response. Kids that have never been spanked hit for example.
 

All Else Failed

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Seeing as how a newly born child can't even comprehend "good" and "bad" I don't see how "we have bad in us" when we are born.

Plus, the concepts of bad and good are COMPLETELY subjective.
 

Tim

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Yes, I have read all the posts. And I have two children, a daughter that's 17 and a son that will be 12 next month. I was very involved with their upbringing and saw first hand how different the two of them were.

How do you think a child learns to be manipulative? You honestly believe that they are born that way?
My first post was about picking up a crying baby every time it cried. I want you to know that it was just an example, most of the time a baby does have a need and it should be picked up and reassured quickly, showing him that he can trust his parents to care for him. Even if the baby's need is just to be held...
 

GraceAbounds

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My first post was about picking up a crying baby every time it cried. I want you to know that it was just an example, most of the time a baby does have a need and it should be picked up and reassured quickly, showing him that he can trust his parents to care for him. Even if the baby's need is just to be held...

Tim I absolutely agree with you and understand.

Here is another way of looking at the point I'm trying to make:

Tim, are you honest? Did you model honesty to your children? I'm betting you are and I'm betting you did so they did not learn to lie from you, but I bet you still had to teach your kids about honesty because they lied to get what they wanted or to not get what they didn't want - like getting in trouble (facing up to the consequences of their own behavior) at one point or another. I think we can all agree that honesty is good and dishonesty is bad. Taking responsibility is good. Not taking responsibility for ones action is not good. It is not that the child is bad or good, it is that we have selfish traits that yes we are born with. Some bad traits are learned and some are genetic and then reinforced by our environment. In toddlers, unlearned selfishness is directly linked to their unbeknown (and in some cases known) manipulative behavior. As they get older it becomes more apparent that they are well aware of their manipulation. It is at this point that as parents we reinforce it or teach it out of them as best we can.
 

All Else Failed

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Dishonesty is not across the board bad. There are times in life where one must be dishonest in some situations.

Its also sort of odd, that I have been around my baby cousins since their birth, and not once have I seen them being "greedy" or "manipulative." Are they a special case?
 

Tim

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Now we are getting into the realm of what is good and what is bad. A child that learns to manipulate his environment to provide him and advantage is not bad, it may be socially unacceptable, but not bad. It is through this learned manipulation that honesty is breached. One leads to another and another... but it all comes from a child that learned that by doing one thing leads to something else (classical conditioning)
 

BreakfastSurreal

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I do believe that all humans are inherently evil...but i also believe we are inherently good. Does that make sense? It's called original sin...we were born wiht it...but im not trying to start a religious debate here.
 

All Else Failed

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If you believe that story. Plus, I think original sin is a pretty bad outlook on humans. It basically makes humans evil, no good scum right when they're born. "Unworthy". Thats a HUGE statement to generalize people as.
 

GraceAbounds

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Now we are getting into the realm of what is good and what is bad. A child that learns to manipulate his environment to provide him and advantage is not bad, it may be socially unacceptable, but not bad. It is through this learned manipulation that honesty is breached. One leads to another and another... but it all comes from a child that learned that by doing one thing leads to something else (classical conditioning)
Classical conditioning is what you described with the crying baby and is not what I am speaking of. The baby initially cried to speak out for a need and then was conditioned to cry for other things needs as well.

As I stated science currently believes it is 50/50. 50% genetic and 50% learned. From what I've witnessed and learned, I agree with it.
 

GraceAbounds

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I do believe that all humans are inherently evil...but i also believe we are inherently good. Does that make sense? It's called original sin...we were born wiht it...but im not trying to start a religious debate here.

I agree with you. Many that are religious do not believe there is any good in us. I disagree. I believe that while yes we are born with the genetic capacity for evil, we were first and foremost created to be loved and to love and that we are all of great worth.
 

BreakfastSurreal

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If you believe that story. Plus, I think original sin is a pretty bad outlook on humans. It basically makes humans evil, no good scum right when they're born. "Unworthy". Thats a HUGE statement to generalize people as.
Excuse me I take offense to you calling my beliefs a "story." I don't sit there and dogg on your opinions...please don't insult mine.
 

Tegan

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I agree with you. Many that are religious do not believe there is any good in us. I disagree. I believe that while yes we are born with the genetic capacity for evil, we were first and foremost created to be loved and to love and that we are all of great worth.

Well, if one is to take the Christian faith at face value and assume that God did create us in his image, doesn't that preclude us from being completely evil? Wouldn't that, by it's very nature as a statement, say that we have the capacity for extreme good?
 
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