Did The Jews Kill Jesus?

[Peter Parka]

Probably going to be quite contravertial but anyway...

I believe they did. I believe that a guy called Jesus who was quite a guy was around. Whether he was the son of god or not is very debateable. I dont think modern day Jews should be held responsible though in the same way that modern Americans arn't responsible for black slavery, the English today arnt responsible for a load of Jews being wiped out in the 13th century and nor are most Germans for what went on under Hitler.

 

[lumpenstein]

There could have been a real Jesus but as you know, legends grow with time so he is surely larger than life.

Having said as much, Jesus was sure to have pissed somebody off and got himself snuffed just like JFK, Darcey McGee and Martin L. King. I am trying to figure out what motive the Jews would have had. Did they take him to be an usurper of their "old" god? Was what he preached the equivilant of the new testament, which competed with their old bible?

Or was he just taken out by the Roman higher-ups. I mean, didn't they get wind of his birth and set out to kill all the new-born boys in the hood just to make sure they got the right one? I mean, if somebody had that much of a hate-on for you, your ass isn't long for this world anyway. I think him making it to 33 was more than I would have bet on.

 

[SgtSpike]

It was mostly Jews who killed him, though there were Romans and other gentiles involved as well. But the main movement was led by the Jews. I agree 100% with you Peter that modern Jews shouldn't be held responsible for anything though.

There could have been a real Jesus but as you know, legends grow with time so he is surely larger than life.

Having said as much, Jesus was sure to have pissed somebody off and got himself snuffed just like JFK, Darcey McGee and Martin L. King. I am trying to figure out what motive the Jews would have had. Did they take him to be an usurper of their "old" god? Was what he preached the equivilant of the new testament, which competed with their old bible?

Or was he just taken out by the Roman higher-ups. I mean, didn't they get wind of his birth and set out to kill all the new-born boys in the hood just to make sure they got the right one? I mean, if somebody had that much of a hate-on for you, your ass isn't long for this world anyway. I think him making it to 33 was more than I would have bet on.

Mostly, it was because many of the Jews didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah they were waiting for. They were picturing a great king who would lead them through battle and release them from being under Roman rule, not a humble carpenter! So, they thought that he was speaking blasphemy that He was the Son of God, and wanted him killed for even saying such a thing.

Also, many of the higher-up Jews at the time were corrupt. They craved power, and craved the attention of others (you could say this for many of the televangelists of today as well). The people looked up to them because they were the supposed holy leaders, setting an "example" by praying on the street corners. When Jesus came and stole the attention away from them, they wanted Him killed.

If you want to know more though, it's best to read the actual story. Matthew 26-28 is the basics of what happened, but it'd be helpful to read the context of the situation as well, which basically involves the whole book of Matthew (or Mark or Luke or John).

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2026-28;&version=31;

 

[thatguyjeff]

I voted no.

According to the bible (which I believe to be accurate in some regards), it was the Romans who carried out the execution. Roman soldiers beat him silly, hammered the nails, hoisted the cross, and it was a Roman soldier who delivered the coup de grace (the spear in the side).

The Jews lobbied for the execution, but it was the Romans who carried it out - according to the bible. Pilate may have "washed his hands" of the situation, but he still ordered his soldiers to carry out what the majority demanded.

 

[SgtSpike]

I voted no.

According to the bible (which I believe to be accurate in some regards), it was the Romans who carried out the execution. Roman soldiers beat him silly, hammered the nails, hoisted the cross, and it was a Roman soldier who delivered the coup de grace (the spear in the side).

The Jews lobbied for the execution, but it was the Romans who carried it out - according to the bible. Pilate may have "washed his hands" of the situation, but he still ordered his soldiers to carry out what the majority demanded.

Good point. I guess we have to decide what the "killing" is actually defined as - whether it be the condemnation to death or the act itself.

The Jews condemned him to death, and without them pushing for it, I don't believe the Romans would have killed him. They had no reason to, the Jews did, which is why I consider the Jews to be the ones who killed him moreso that the Romans who actually carried out the act. But I agree both parties were at fault.

 

[lumpenstein]

Good point. I guess we have to decide what the "killing" is actually defined as - whether it be the condemnation to death or the act itself.

The Jews condemned him to death, and without them pushing for it, I don't believe the Romans would have killed him. They had no reason to, the Jews did, which is why I consider the Jews to be the ones who killed him moreso that the Romans who actually carried out the act. But I agree both parties were at fault.

Yeah really. That was a simplistic view of murder. If a Mafia don wants you dead he calls his heavies in (usually a Luigi or a Guido) and they give you cement shoes. They are guilty of murder but so is the don even if he didn't physically take part. Intent is just as real as the act.

 

[thatguyjeff]

Yeah really. That was a simplistic view of murder. If a Mafia don wants you dead he calls his heavies in (usually a Luigi or a Guido) and they give you cement shoes. They are guilty of murder but so is the don even if he didn't physically take part. Intent is just as real as the act.

I don't think your analogy fits all that well.

In your example, the mafia (as a group) is still responsible - there's no question in my mind. The question as posed was if the Jews were responsible.

Pilate could have just as easily declared that Jesus not be executed. He was clearly calling the shots. He made the decision. Based on your analogy, I see Pilate as the mafia boss and I think my arguement still stands.

Still, Pilate probably would have had a serious riot on his hands had he not done what he did (if you believe most of what's in the bible in that regard). There were a lot of factors that went into it.

I see this more like Saddam Hussein's execution. Most of the U.S. wanted to see him hang I believe, and it was U.S. intervention in that region that led to his capture and prosecution. But it was an Iraqi court (edit: or was it world court?) that sentenced him and it was Iraqi officials that carried out the execution. So who's responsible for Saddam's death? Was it the Iraqi's or the U.S.? One who believes the Jews were responsible for Jesus' death would seem to have to follow the same logic for Saddam. I don't see it that way. The U.S. was directly involved (like the Jews with Jesus), but it was the Iraqis (Romans) who carried it out.

(not to derail the thread here with Saddam and Iraq talk - let's stick to Jesus and the Jews)

 

[SgtSpike]

I don't think your analogy fits all that well.

In your example, the mafia (as a group) is still responsible - there's no question in my mind. The question as posed was if the Jews were responsible.

Pilate could have just as easily declared that Jesus not be executed. He was clearly calling the shots. He made the decision. Based on your analogy, I see Pilate as the mafia boss and I think my arguement still stands.

Still, Pilate probably would have had a serious riot on his hands had he not done what he did (if you believe most of what's in the bible in that regard). There were a lot of factors that went into it.

I see this more like Saddam Hussein's execution. Most of the U.S. wanted to see him hang I believe, and it was U.S. intervention in that region that led to his capture and prosecution. But it was an Iraqi court (edit: or was it world court?) that sentenced him and it was Iraqi officials that carried out the execution. So who's responsible for Saddam's death? Was it the Iraqi's or the U.S.? One who believes the Jews were responsible for Jesus' death would seem to have to follow the same logic for Saddam. I don't see it that way. The U.S. was directly involved (like the Jews with Jesus), but it was the Iraqis (Romans) who carried it out.

(not to derail the thread here with Saddam and Iraq talk - let's stick to Jesus and the Jews)

You make a good point, and thanks for bringing up your ideas. There's definitely blame to go around among all parties involved, that's for sure. Any of them could have prevented (or tried to prevent) the killing.

 

[deep impact]

i dont believe prophet jesus was killed by jews.

it has written in quran like that;

[4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.
[4:158] Instead, GOD raised him to Him; GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
[4:159] Everyone among the people of the scripture was required to believe in him before his death. On the Day of Resurrection, he will be a witness against them.

 

[Sylviane88]

i dont believe prophet jesus was killed by jews.

it has written in quran like that;

[4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.
[4:158] Instead, GOD raised him to Him; GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
[4:159] Everyone among the people of the scripture was required to believe in him before his death. On the Day of Resurrection, he will be a witness against them.

That's right .. Indeed, Jews had the intention to kill him and tried to kill him .. But God saved his prophet Jesus .. Another man was killed and crucified .. Jews thought that it was Jesus.

 

[Strauss]

It was mostly Jews who killed him, though there were Romans and other gentiles involved as well.

Just pointing out that there were no "gentiles" at the time Jesus was crucified.

I would also point out that Jesus was a Jew and if you knew your biblical history he never intended not to be a Jew. He also was 30 some years old, never married and hung out with a hooker. I'm sensing a certain "gayness" to his aura.

 

[Alien Allen]

Come on wake up folks

Everybody knows it was Bush that killed him

 

[lumpenstein]

Come on wake up folks

Everybody knows it was Bush that killed him

Oh! I thought it was the Hare Krishnas! :eek