Democrats Block Visa Legislation for Highly Educated

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Accountable

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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/u...lation-for-highly-educated.html?smid=tw-share
Senate Democrats on Wednesday blocked Republicans from bringing up a House-passed [FONT=georgia, times new roman, times, serif]immigration[/FONT] bill offering permanent residence visas for foreigners with advanced degrees. Senator John Cornyn, Republican of Texas, sought unanimous consent to consider a bill that would provide 55,000 visas a year to some graduates with masters and doctorate degrees from American colleges. But Senator Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York, objected because it eliminated a visa program that benefits less-educated people, particularly from Africa.
This is the kind of bullshit I'm always talking about. Repubs put forward a bill they know dems will object to. Do they really want to pass the bill, or do they want to be able to say the dems vote against immigration? Do the dems really object to the plan, or are they just loathe to allow the repubs a victory?
 
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The Man

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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/u...lation-for-highly-educated.html?smid=tw-share
This is the kind of bullshit I'm always talking about. Repubs put forward a bill they know dems will object to. Do they really want to pass the bill, or do they want to be able to say the dems vote against immigration? Do the dems really object to the plan, or are they just loathe to allow the repubs a victory?

The democrats dont want anyone here with intelligence ....as they will not vote democrat later if they decide to become citizens.
 

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Really?? People still say that?


eta: Weird how we can be racist & xenophobic, and simultaneously hire foreigners instead of citizens.
 

Dana

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I'm neither racist nor xenophobic. But they are profiling well educated foreigners for job placement, no? American unemployment is at an all time high and people want foreigners to staff positions. I think Americans need to get off their asses and fill these spots.
 

Accountable

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I'm neither racist nor xenophobic. But they are profiling well educated foreigners for job placement, no? American unemployment is at an all time high and people want foreigners to staff positions. I think Americans need to get off their asses and fill these spots.
I'd bet that qualified Americans would get hired ahead of qualified foreigners. I agree with you about Americans getting off their asses, but for these highly skilled positions, the best we can hope for is that parents will wake up and push their kids to get their education.
 

Johnfromokc

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I'd bet that qualified Americans would get hired ahead of qualified foreigners. I agree with you about Americans getting off their asses, but for these highly skilled positions, the best we can hope for is that parents will wake up and push their kids to get their education.


Corporations have been displacing qualified American workers in place of guest workers for decades now. The "lack of skills" excuse is a blatant lie and code speak for corporations not wanting to pay American wages when they can pay guest workers half. American workers are as skilled as ever - don't fall for the corporatocracy lies.

http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/displacing-american-labor-through-foreign-guest-worker-visas
 

Johnfromokc

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Parents should push their kids to get an education??? Hell, kids graduating with all kinds of degrees cannot gey hired right now - even law school graduates are having a hard time finding work. And it's not just liberal arts majors that are having difficulty. It's because of all the off shoring and guest workers. Corporations are simply greedy as hell and refuse to pay Americans decent wages when they can import and export cheap college educated labor.

http://www.sovereignman.com/news-feed/law-school-grads-compete-over-position-the-pays-less-than-minimum-wage-7015/
 

CityGirl

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I read yesterday that there were 3 criteria that define a "good job"

#1 The job must pay at least $18.50 an hour. According to the authors [Schmitt and Jones at The Center for Economic and Policy Research], that is the equivalent of the median hourly pay for American workers back in 1979 after you adjust for inflation.
#2 The job must provide access to employer-sponsored health insurance, and the employer must pay at least some portion of the cost of that insurance.
#3 The job must provide access to an employer-sponsored retirement plan.
By this definition, less than one-fourth (24.6 percent) of the workforce in 2010 (the most recent year for which data are available) had a “good job.” This figure was down from 27.4 percent in 1979.Compared to the end of the 1970s, the typical worker is almost twice as likely to have a four-year college degree, is about seven years older, works with about 50 percent more physical capital, and uses much more advanced technology.


“The standard explanation for this loss of the economy’s ability to create good jobs is that most workers skills have not kept up with the pace of technological change,” said John Schmitt, a senior economist at CEPR and one of the report's co-authors. “But, it is hard to reconcile that view with the fact that even workers with a college degree are less likely to have a good job now than at the end of the 1970s.”

The authors suggest, instead, that the decline in the economy’s ability to produce good jobs relates to a deterioration of the bargaining power of workers. They point to the fall in the inflation-adjusted value of the minimum wage, the decline in union representation, trade deals, high unemployment, and other factors that reduce the bargaining power of workers relative to their employers.
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/publications/reports/where-have-all-the-good-jobs-gone
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/press.../the-share-of-good-jobs-has-fallen-since-1979
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exchange/where-good-jobs-gone-195409412.html
 

The Man

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I'd bet that qualified Americans would get hired ahead of qualified foreigners. I agree with you about Americans getting off their asses, but for these highly skilled positions, the best we can hope for is that parents will wake up and push their kids to get their education.
Not so sure about that...many times an employer is given a tax credit for minorities...also you are required by law to hire x amount of minorities.
So the more the better in such case.
 

The Man

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Parents should push their kids to get an education??? Hell, kids graduating with all kinds of degrees cannot gey hired right now - even law school graduates are having a hard time finding work. And it's not just liberal arts majors that are having difficulty. It's because of all the off shoring and guest workers. Corporations are simply greedy as hell and refuse to pay Americans decent wages when they can import and export cheap college educated labor.



A fine example of why we need to eliminate unions
 

CityGirl

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Parents should push their kids to get an education??? Hell, kids graduating with all kinds of degrees cannot gey hired right now - even law school graduates are having a hard time finding work. And it's not just liberal arts majors that are having difficulty. It's because of all the off shoring and guest workers. Corporations are simply greedy as hell and refuse to pay Americans decent wages when they can import and export cheap college educated labor.



A fine example of why we need to eliminate unions
Really? In 1979, 23% of private sector workers were unionized. Today, it is less than 8%.
 

Accountable

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Not so sure about that...many times an employer is given a tax credit for minorities...also you are required by law to hire x amount of minorities.
So the more the better in such case.
Tax credits for minorities?

First: Citation, please.
Next: It might be news where you live, but nearly half of American citizens fit the designation of "minority"
 

The Man

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Really? In 1979, 23% of private sector workers were unionized. Today, it is less than 8%.
As John says they are setting up overseas ...to beat high costs.
Couple to the fact many companies have went bankrupt ..and open back up non union.
The main thing here is we cant all make at least 30 bucks an hour.
The price of a good or service is very relative to its labor costs.
When labor goes up so do prices.....as they follow.
When common labor was 50 cents an hour ...the prices of the product was also low.
If we give starting wages at say 30 bucks an hour...this will be the new minimum wage and prices will jump...thus driving more to set up shop overseas.
We need to keep labor costs as low as possible..thus we can provide the product for less and stay in the states.
John wants to increase everyone wages....this does nothing but drive up the costs to match it...nothing has been gained as a result....and more people set up shop elsewhere.
His argument would be better argued to decrease wages of those that make above common labor wages as to reduce costs....and perhaps split the duties.
For example John makes 170 k a year...screw that...reduce his wages to 40 k a year...the costs {tuition} will go way down as a result.....the education being the "service" in this case.
The janitor that John feels should make good money can also make 40 grand a year as John isnt being overpaid.
Students have lower tuition as a result as a bonus...The only adjustment needed is to reduce these high wages of others{John}.
 

The Man

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And you're a fine example of a moron - you chickenshithawk fucktard.

chickenhawk-783724.jpg

You seem upset John and are resorting to lies again...not the character of a real marine John.
I suspect your boots got pissed in quite a bit during your tour....not only by you but by others while you were alseep.
 

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Maybe I'm simpleminded but it seems to me that during the years when we had significantly higher taxes, lower ratio of CEO-average worker pay, a large manufacturing base, and strong unions, that there were more good jobs and less unemployment.

Hedrick Smith writes in his book Who Stole the American Dream about the mantra that we hear that higher wages destroy competitiveness and yet, he writes of how German companies have raised their wages 5x faster than the US and while the US accrued a trade deficit of $2trillion from 2000-2010, the Germans accrued in the same time period more than $2trillion in trade surpluses. While the US has offshored, leaving a mere 9% of it's workforce in manufacturing, Germany has maintained 21% of their workforce in manufacturing.

Smith also talks in his book about what economists call "the virtuous circle of growth" a dynamic which drove the period of prosperity from 1945- mid 1970 in which "CEOs in that era believed that it was their job to promote and sustain the interests and economic well-being of all the stakeholders in the company, all the groups with a stake in the company's success: owners, managers, employees, suppliers, creditors, customers and communities around the company's plants. Those old CEOs operated from a philosophy of shared prosperity and the country as a whole benefited. Employees got paid well, they and their families went out and spent their pay. That created strong consumer demand, which caused companies to expand their production. They built new plants. They bought new equipment. They hired more workers and that generated a new circle of growth."

So, it seems that stakeholder capitalism has given way to crony capitalism. The profit sharing of the model that was central to the "virtuous circle of growth" has been bastardized, villianized and correlated with "wealth redistribution".

Below is a graph correlating union membership and middle class incomes. I don't see how ridding the nation of unions has benefitted the middle class. If offshoring is beneficial I'm not seeing it.
unionmembershiprates.png

BTW, I find it interesting to compare the Republican party platform of 1956 to the Republican party platforms of 2000, 2004,2008 and 2012. Not the same party....not even close.

 

The Man

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Maybe I'm simpleminded but it seems to me that during the years when we had significantly higher taxes, lower ratio of CEO-average worker pay, a large manufacturing base, and strong unions, that there were more good jobs and less unemployment.

Hedrick Smith writes in his book Who Stole the American Dream about the mantra that we hear that higher wages destroy competitiveness and yet, he writes of how German companies have raised their wages 5x faster than the US and while the US accrued a trade deficit of $2trillion from 2000-2010, the Germans accrued in the same time period more than $2trillion in trade surpluses. While the US has offshored, leaving a mere 9% of it's workforce in manufacturing, Germany has maintained 21% of their workforce in manufacturing.

Smith also talks in his book about what economists call "the virtuous circle of growth" a dynamic which drove the period of prosperity from 1945- mid 1970 in which "CEOs in that era believed that it was their job to promote and sustain the interests and economic well-being of all the stakeholders in the company, all the groups with a stake in the company's success: owners, managers, employees, suppliers, creditors, customers and communities around the company's plants. Those old CEOs operated from a philosophy of shared prosperity and the country as a whole benefited. Employees got paid well, they and their families went out and spent their pay. That created strong consumer demand, which caused companies to expand their production. They built new plants. They bought new equipment. They hired more workers and that generated a new circle of growth."

So, it seems that stakeholder capitalism has given way to crony capitalism. The profit sharing of the model that was central to the "virtuous circle of growth" has been bastardized, villianized and correlated with "wealth redistribution".

Below is a graph correlating union membership and middle class incomes. I don't see how ridding the nation of unions has benefitted the middle class. If offshoring is beneficial I'm not seeing it.
unionmembershiprates.png

BTW, I find it interesting to compare the Republican party platform of 1956 to the Republican party platforms of 2000, 2004,2008 and 2012. Not the same party....not even close.


Maybe I'm simpleminded but it seems to me that during the years when we had significantly higher taxes, lower ratio of CEO-average worker pay, a large manufacturing base, and strong unions, that there were more good jobs and less unemployment.

Say the 60s for example?
Govt spending has increased forty times since 1960...people and corps were not actually paying the taxes that are floating around on the internet.
Revenues come from taxes fines fees and tariffs...all of which the consumer paid for in the beginning.
We musnt just look at raw numbers via tax percentage but rather what is actually collected due to all the loop holes and codes.
There must have been alot of holes and loop holes in the past as revenues do not compare to that as of today.
But lets go with a 94 percent tax for a moment{that is getting posted around}...and lets apply it to say those making over 200K a year.
Lets take the president for instance pay him 5 million a year ...but he only gets a little over 6 percent..he hasnt even got a million dollars after taxes.
When we apply the same to innovation the same happens ...what would be the purpose of say Microsoft ever going big as they did?
Ford?
Drug companies?
Colleges?
As there is no actual reward.
Also we must consider...people will want money..at a 94 percent tax we really need to rake in the profits to say buy that mansion...they will raise prices..the consumers pay for it via the price of the good or service.

If someone wanted 5 million dollars but were taxed an actual 94 percent he would need to earn about 80 million dollars.
Prices go up.

And also going back to unions....unions break companies through labor and pensions costs.
If unions equate to middle class...and we all have unions..that is the new lower class...as prices will go up relativity.

We offshore due to the reduced cost.
Corporate tax
Payroll tax
Labor wages.
Property tax.
Materials...of which are higher..if bought from those that also have the huge tax burdens
The govt obtains almost as much from payroll tax as income tax....the company pays the payroll tax.
The reason labor is lower across the ocean is burden.

Ok lets funnel money for a minute from those doing well to those that are not.
No taxes for the lower class...and hammer the rest.
40 percent corp tax
94 percent tax for the rich.
Prices go up ....but also compound as the materials electric etc will also went up.
Wages have to go up to match how everything has went up...since wages went up...now the prices go up again.
Just imagine the reverse of such...a lower tax nation...labor is very cheap as a result.
The same purchase power within its own host.....but imbalanced outside its host

Those taxes reflect the price of the product.
Our govt spends 20k a year per citizen...every purchase you make towards a product or service goes towards such.
Whether paying a tax...hidden tariffs or hidden fees..its the consumer that pays it...without the consumer it cant get paid.
When you purchase a product or service you are paying for the sum of all costs handed down to you.
The result roughly twice the price.
At the end of the year the rich really weren't screwed,,,it all come from the customer to begin with
Also we are now a global economy after the major wars have ended...trading among nations...Japanese cars are now common,
We get alot of stuff from china in the way of house goods.
Lots of importing and exporting...you purchase from the least expensive place...which is often times china..
To compete properly...we have to be competitive ..if not..exports are down and imports are up...not good.

We need to deflate our dollar so off shoring will be less attractive.
 
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