DEBATE TOURNAMENT SEMI-FINAL... HK vs Butterfly

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USF Sam

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Semi-Final Match: HK vs Butterfly

Legalization of Recreational Marijuana

Proposition 19 in California was a ballot initiative to legalize marijuana. It failed by less than 4%. Proponents claim that pot is less damaging than alcohol, both personally and to society as a whole. Opponents refute this and the term “gateway drug” is commonly used. Taxes, prison population, street crime and a dozen other facets are a part of this controversy.

QUESTION: “Should the recreational use of marijuana be legalized?”

HK, you may lead off.

Posts are limited to 400 words, three rounds per person. No editing unless approved by me.

PLEASE- NOBODY ELSE POST IN THIS THREAD UNTIL THE RESULTS OF THIS DEBATE ARE ANNOUNCED.

HK, the floor is yours.
 
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HK

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I know, I know, I've been very sick the last couple of days and haven't been out of bed at all :(

This isn't my first post haha, this is just me posting to explain why it's going to be another couple of hours before I have the strength to form an argument. I will post today, I need food first though! I promise it'll be within the 24 hour deadline.
 

HK

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I support the legalisation of recreational marijuana.

Firstly, because it is a potential area for taxation that our governments are currently missing out on. The tobacco industry has never been outlawed despite public support in that direction – smoking is now banned overwhelmingly in public places – because it is still a thriving money-maker. The legalisation of marijuana could add another facet to this, and in a time when the economy needs all the help it can get, it is a very relevant factor.

Secondly, although I am aware that there are flaws in this argument – substances that are just as, if not more harmful, are legal and readily available to everyone. Drugs such as alcohol and tobacco are the obvious examples but you can also include black coffee. Smoking has only very recently started to fall out of favour in the public eye, and drinking is still considered a very normal social activity, despite the enormous health risks and the dangers people who are heavy drinkers pose to others. Marijuana is also not physically addictive, and people attempting to come off marijuana tend to have few side effects and a very mild experience, if any trouble at all, whereas alcoholics notoriously have a far harder time breaking the habit. Why are we happy to condemn a drug that has arguably far less serious consequences than some that are currently legal?

Thirdly, the original post for this debate mentions the idea that marijuana is a gateway drug. No study so far has conclusively proved this to be so, and most scientists agree that even when a correlation does appear, it is more likely attributed to the fact that the social environment in which marijuana is sold has a more harmful effect than the drug itself. If we were to legalise marijuana and take it away from the setting of drug dealers, who are likely to be selling harder drugs and have a vested interest in keeping their clients addicted to something, the correlation between marijuana and moving on to harder drugs is likely to go down.

Although it may seem like it would be taking a big step to legalise marijuana, it has only been an illegal substance in the United Kingdom since 1928, and from a similar date in the United States. It did not start out as an illegal substance and the reasons for it remaining so seem illogical compared to the fact that it is a relatively harmless drug.
 

Butterfly

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I do not support the legalization of recreational marijuana.

Monetary gain should never be the main reason for allowing the general public to engage in potentially dangerous activities. While it may bring in revenue in the form of taxes, the government may well end up having to face a situation where the number of users needing treatment for addiction rises significantly.

Furthermore, while your argument that other addictive substances, such as alcohol, nicotine and caffeine are legally available, is valid, it does not hold water in proving that marijuana legalization is a positive thing. Firstly, it is important to note that while caffeine and nicotine are addictive, neither one significantly reduces the users ability to perform tasks such as driving. Alcohol, however does, as does marijuana. There are already a significant amount of alcohol related problems, like motor vehicle accidents and violence. Legalizing marijuana will only serve to increase these issues. And, adding the financial aspect of state funded therapy, rehabilitation and other treatment of victims (and often perpetrators too) of such incidents, is it really financially beneficial in the greater scheme of things?

While marijuana may not be a gateway drug for all users, legalizing it will not do much toward the prevention and reduction of the illegal drug trade. It will merely be one less product the dealer has to sell. We can't stop people using marijuana, so we legalize it. Next, shall we legalize ecstasy? We can't really stop people using that either. Where do we draw the line?
 

HK

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I think you make some good points, but I disagree on one of your main areas, which is that legalisation will only lead to the government shouldering the cost for treatment of addicts.

As I said in my original post, marijuana is not physically addictive, so the majority of users will never need any form of treatment or help in order to quit using. Most who do decide to quit will do with relative ease - the withdrawal symptoms from trying to quit tobacco are more likely to cause problems. The small minority of users who have an addiction and need help breaking it to the extent of having government funded treatment centres, are also likely to be people who are addicted to other substances as well, and would have ended up in a rehabilitation centre regardless.

You say the number of people needing help would rise, and that legalising marijuana would also only serve to increase marijuana-related issues. This insinuates that legalisation would mean more people using, but I disagree that this would be the case. Two million people in the UK smoke marijuana, and half of all young adults have tried it at least once - it is not difficult to obtain if you have an interest, and the fact that so many people already partake suggests that the legality of it does not put anyone off. If marijuana being used freely were likely to cause issues then we'd already be seeing those issues, because people are already using it, they just don't do it publicly.

I understand the argument against it that if we legalise one drug, where do we stop? I think it is important to assess illegal substances individually though. Other drugs aren't the issue right now - marijuana is, and it just isn't as dangerous as the media would have us believe. It is physically impossible to ingest enough cannabis to provoke a toxic response, for example. There are no known cases of death caused directly by marijuana consumption, and if you eat it instead of smoking it then the unhealthiest part of the process, smoking, vanishes entirely.

It is not dangerous, it is widely used and the only thing it being illegal does is give the police one more thing to bother with, when they could be concentrating on more worthy crimes.
 

Butterfly

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I think it is naive to believe that there will not be an increase in use if it were legalized. Sure, the legality may not dissuade some users, but there is a percentage of people who are dissuaded by it. In my opinion it is also naive to think that it is not a habit forming drug.

Yes, by eating it, many of the harmful effects of smoking it might not occur, but the reality is that the majority of users DO smoke it. And they are likely to continue to do so. By smoking it, they are not only harming themselves, but also opening up the general public to whole new kind of second hand smoke.

Furthermore, you claim that it has limited negative effects. Studies have shown that the potency of marijuana being cultivated now is on the rise. What is available now, is way more potent (% of THC) than that which was available several years ago. It can be argued that as the potency continues to increase, so too will the negative side effects of long term use. We cannot assume that filling out body with chemicals of any nature would not affect and change the way in which our body functions, especially over the long term.
 

HK

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I think it is naive to believe that there will not be an increase in use if it were legalized. Sure, the legality may not dissuade some users, but there is a percentage of people who are dissuaded by it. In my opinion it is also naive to think that it is not a habit forming drug.

I think there may be a slight rise, but I think it is very unlikely that there would be a rise big enough to warrant concern. Figures also might reflect 'more' people smoking pot, but this could also just mean that once it's legalised, people won't feel they have to lie about using it. Like I said - large percentages already use it, the people who are most likely to, or who want to, have easy access to it - the only thing that is likely to significantly change with legalisation is that the number of arrests will go down.

Yes, by eating it, many of the harmful effects of smoking it might not occur, but the reality is that the majority of users DO smoke it. And they are likely to continue to do so. By smoking it, they are not only harming themselves, but also opening up the general public to whole new kind of second hand smoke.

It's true, the majority smoke it and will probably continue to do so. However, until a law is passed that bans all forms of smoking, we can't allow tobacco smoke, and then turn around and say marijuana smoke would be far too unhealthy. Tobacco smoke is in fact more dangerous, so that would make no sense. Many countries now ban public smoking, so most recreational marijuana use, which already takes place behind closed doors, is unlikely to suddenly move out onto the streets.

Furthermore, you claim that it has limited negative effects. Studies have shown that the potency of marijuana being cultivated now is on the rise. What is available now, is way more potent (% of THC) than that which was available several years ago. It can be argued that as the potency continues to increase, so too will the negative side effects of long term use. We cannot assume that filling out body with chemicals of any nature would not affect and change the way in which our body functions, especially over the long term.

Actually, this isn't true. Although it is now a popular myth to bring up in the media, especially as a scare tactic, research into the 'studies' that claim marijuana is worse now than say 50 years ago have been shown to be skewing the figures by using the lowest THC counts from previous years, and comparing them to the highest THC counts in recent times. Obviously this provides a far larger disparity, and makes for better headlines, whereas the truth is most people won't be smoking anything much different from what their parents and grandparents were.

I have a link to back this up: http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/#potent

Marijuana is not as dangerous nor as likely to cause problems as anti-drugs campaigners would have everyone believe. Having it as an illegal substance only means that people tend to get arrested for possessing or growing it - there's no evidence to suggest it makes people violent or anti-social, and obviously if it were legal it should still be subject to restrictions like other drugs, such as no driving while under the influence.
 

Butterfly

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Yes, tobacco smoke is dangerous. As a parent, I don't want my kids having to breathe it in second hand. I am even less pleased with even the prospect that they would have to inadvertently inhale a behavior modifying narcotic! While you may argue that in many countries public smoking is banned, this is not the case for all countries. My own being no exception. Here it is legal to smoke so long as you are outdoors, or in a designated smoking area. We're already getting second hand cigarette smoke simply by walking on a sidewalk, now my kids should get "second hand high" too? And I am under no illusions that should marijuana be legalized, it would be under the same laws as smoking, since users will argue they should have the same rights as those who smoke tobacco.

Yes, marijuana would probably fall under the similar laws as alcohol when it comes to driving and operating machinery etc. Fair enough. So, like alcohol, it would be illegal to drive under the influence of marijuana. So, how many DUI's occur every year? How many people, innocent people, are killed in car accidents caused by drunk drivers every year? How well enforced are those laws really? Given these facts, would legalizing marijuana not, logically, immediately cause a rise to these sorts of incidents? I believe so.

Marijuana may not be as dangerous as heroine or cocaine, but we'd be fools to assume it is not dangerous at all. As with all things chemical, there is always a risk involved, both to the individual using at, and potentially to those around the user as well. It would be in the interest of the general public for marijuana to remain illegal. The consequences of it being freely available to any and all are simply to grave to ignore.
 

USF Sam

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DEBATE CLOSED

I can't post a threaded discussion because it is too long.

Please read the debate above and PM me yuour vote with the reasons.
 

USF Sam

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BUMPITY BUMP BUMP...

I can't post a conclusion thread since it's too many characters.

Both parties put a lot into this. Please place your votes.


Voting ends noon EST Monday.
 
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