Debate Tournament Round 1 --- RED vs HK

[USF Sam]

This is the fourth of four debates in the opening round of the tournament.

Please... ONLY Red and HK post in this thread until the results of this debate have been decided.

TOURNAMENT RULES
​

1. Red will post first, stating her position and the reasons for it.
2. HK will then respond, stating her position and attacking Red's.
3. Each player will have a total of three posts, exchanging turns, with the maximum word count of 250 per post.
4. Quoting the other player's post in your rebuttal does not count against this 250.
5. Posts WILL NOT BE EDITED! If a post is edited, the player is immediately disqualified.
6. After both sides have gone 3 times OR if there is no rebuttal after 24 hours the debate will be closed.
7. After it is closed, all posters are encouraged to vote by PM'ing me their vote AND the reason for their vote.
8. After 72 hours of voting I will post the votes and the comments in the debate thread. The winner moves on to the next round.

For the first round we are keeping it light and the questions will be in the area of Popular Culture.

Trust me... for the next rounds the questions will get a LOT "deeper" in nature.


Red and HK- The question for your consideration is:

Hollywood ran out of original ideas long ago. Will Smith dug up an 80's franchise and turned it into a star-making role for his son in "The Karate Kid". "Friday the 13th", "Batman", "Nightmare on Elm Street" and others have been given the big money remake treatment. Producers even go across the pond and the Japanese hit "Ringu" is reborn as "The Ring". What would be the best movie to undergo the next mega-bucks remake?




Red, you may lead off.

 

[USF Sam]

BUMP TO KEEP ON FRONT PAGE


Red- You are up.

 

[USF Sam]

Red, we await your first post.

 

[RedRyder]

I gave this some thought. There are so many movies to choose from. I definitely think it would have to be a movie that has been out of the system for a couple of decades or longer. That way, it would be given a chance on its own merits to succeed or fail. Not succeed or fail because those who have seen the original movie hold it in their minds as one that could or could never be remade.

I think that the next best movie to remake would have to be GREASE.

Not a sequel. But the original movie content.

My reasoning: People love to look back at the past when times seemed to be easier. This movie offers a great story line with lots of things going on at the same time.... set to '50s music. It's mostly upbeat and fun. The songs are contagious and the dancing fabulous.

Picking the right actors/actresses would definitely be key to its success.

 

[HK]

Although I agree with you on the musical genre that is likely to undergo a revival, I disagree on the choice of movie. Grease is undeniably a classic, but it's too recent to undergo a really significant revival - I think far too many people are still very attached to the classic version for a remake to go down well. John Travolta and Olivia Newton-John are practically icons in that movie, and trying to get younger versions to fill their shoes has huge potential for disappointment.

My choice of movie to remake would instead be The Sound Of Music.

How many people can name more than one actress - Julie Andrews - from that movie? Hardly anyone. It's iconic, but old enough that at least one generation if not more only know about it through osmosis - hearing other people discuss it and seeing references in other films or on tv shows. Hell, I've seen it and all I remember is Julie Andrews running up a hill.

Not only is it old enough to warrant a revival without any serious problems against nostalgic fans, it's incredibly catchy. The songs in that musical are ripe for a renewal with some backbeats and faster pacing, and Hollywood already knows they have staying appeal with the public because as I said, even though far more people haven't seen it these days, we all still know that those hills are alive with the sound of music.

 

[RedRyder]

Too recent you say? 33 years ago. 1978. Sorry, but I disagree.

My last sentence said that picking the right actors/actresses would be key to (a remake of GREASE) its being successful. There is a lot of talent out there that I believe could accomplish this feat. I'm not talking about look-a-likes. I'm sure there are no perfect John Travolta's or Olivia Newton-John's out there. They aren't needed for a remake to become successful anyway. If the right people are chosen and have looks, talent, and a commanding performance, they should succeed with an audience who is searching for such a movie and are looking to be entertained by an era gone by.

As for naming the actors or actresses in GREASE.... Can you really name any others besides John and Olivia? No googling now.

The Sound Of Music is a wonderful movie. I'll give you that. But the audience would be a different venue than GREASE. The music would not appeal to the types of people that would flock to and fill a Rock N Roll movie venue. Remake or otherwise.

Truthfully, I cannot imagine any of the songs in The Sound Of Music kicked up a notch by 'backbeats' and 'faster pacing' as you suggested. Unless the Chipmunks were offered a role. Then..... No. That just wouldn't work.

 

[HK]

It's true, they would be different target audiences to a degree - obviously the same people who are attracted to the dirty high school appeal of Grease aren't necessarily going to be attracted to a family classic. The Sound Of Music does have cross-generational appeal though - older people who remember the original fondly, adults who watched it as kids, and families who will take their children to see it

I understand what you mean about it being hard to imagine more upbeat music than the original, but they do remixes of old songs all the time, and they're invariably popular - and like I said, Hollywood already knows that they're popular, catchy tunes that people all of ages will remember!

I also think that whether or not a movie is going to sink or swim with critics and awards ceremonies is a big consideration. A film like The Sound Of Music is a far safer choice critically than Grease - the message a movie sends can be critical to it's performance. Grease advocates changing who you are to try and 'get the guy', and that being a good girl like Sandy is something to be shied away from. The Sound Of Music is all about being who you are deep down inside and staying true to yourself. That kind of message is going to go down far better than the easy promiscuity Grease promotes, and at the end of the day Hollywood values things like awards and good reviews a lot.

 

[RedRyder]

A remake that messes too much with the musical score will invariably lose the draw it was intending to make in the first place. I disagree wholeheartedly about speeding up the pace of any classic musical.

As far as awards go, the content isn't as important as the actors/actresses performance(s). Take a look at some of the movies that won awards. There is a wide variety of subject matter. Comedy, Drama, etc., rated anything from G to R. Some had very controversial subject matter in their time. And still do. Anything goes in Hollywood these days.

I totally disagree with your take that GREASE promoted promiscuity. It was a love story from start to finish. A young couple meet away from high school and can be themselves and fall in love. Later when they meet again in high school, everything that happens while a student comes between them. Popularity standards on Travolta's part mainly. He's torn by it as you should have been able to deduct by how the movie's outcome shows. I saw no sex scenes that would suggest your take on the movie. One of the other girls 'thinks' she is pregnant and that eludes to her having sex..... but it in no way promotes such a thing as promiscuity.

Awards aren't won by a movie's subject being 'safe'. Awards are won on the abilities of the actors/actresses and the writers/producers/directors.

I stand by my choice. GREASE.

 

[HK]

I respect your choice however, I still think that if Hollywood weighed up the likelihood of which movie were going to crash and burn, against which were more likely to earn them some safe profits, The Sound Of Music is a much more logical choice simply because it has far less risk involved. The Grease musical numbers have already been remixed in the past to be used in nightclubs, so it wouldn't be offering anything new musically (I know you doubt that The Sound Of Music could be redone well, but I disagree - in the last year two different pop music artists have used samples of the soundtrack on singles that were extremely popular, which suggests it could have a potentially decent reception if redone properly).

We'll have to agree to disagree on the message that Grease promotes. It might be a love story, but in the beginning it shows a young couple fall in love away from the stereotypical roles they have in high school. When they get back to school, it is impossible for Sandy to hold onto her man unless she conforms and becomes the kind of girl his friends are seen with. She has to wear tight-fitting clothing, start smoking and make countless double-entendres in order to be 'the one that he wants'. I don't call that a triumph over adversity at all. It sends the message that you won't get the guy unless you dress up and let go of your morals - that's just not a family friendly, promotable message.

 

[USF Sam]

I gave this some thought. There are so many movies to choose from. I definitely think it would have to be a movie that has been out of the system for a couple of decades or longer. That way, it would be given a chance on its own merits to succeed or fail. Not succeed or fail because those who have seen the original movie hold it in their minds as one that could or could never be remade.

I think that the next best movie to remake would have to be GREASE.

Not a sequel. But the original movie content.

My reasoning: People love to look back at the past when times seemed to be easier. This movie offers a great story line with lots of things going on at the same time.... set to '50s music. It's mostly upbeat and fun. The songs are contagious and the dancing fabulous.

Picking the right actors/actresses would definitely be key to its success.

Although I agree with you on the musical genre that is likely to undergo a revival, I disagree on the choice of movie. Grease is undeniably a classic, but it's too recent to undergo a really significant revival - I think far too many people are still very attached to the classic version for a remake to go down well. John Travolta and Olivia Newton-John are practically icons in that movie, and trying to get younger versions to fill their shoes has huge potential for disappointment.

My choice of movie to remake would instead be The Sound Of Music.

How many people can name more than one actress - Julie Andrews - from that movie? Hardly anyone. It's iconic, but old enough that at least one generation if not more only know about it through osmosis - hearing other people discuss it and seeing references in other films or on tv shows. Hell, I've seen it and all I remember is Julie Andrews running up a hill.

Not only is it old enough to warrant a revival without any serious problems against nostalgic fans, it's incredibly catchy. The songs in that musical are ripe for a renewal with some backbeats and faster pacing, and Hollywood already knows they have staying appeal with the public because as I said, even though far more people haven't seen it these days, we all still know that those hills are alive with the sound of music.

Too recent you say? 33 years ago. 1978. Sorry, but I disagree.

My last sentence said that picking the right actors/actresses would be key to (a remake of GREASE) its being successful. There is a lot of talent out there that I believe could accomplish this feat. I'm not talking about look-a-likes. I'm sure there are no perfect John Travolta's or Olivia Newton-John's out there. They aren't needed for a remake to become successful anyway. If the right people are chosen and have looks, talent, and a commanding performance, they should succeed with an audience who is searching for such a movie and are looking to be entertained by an era gone by.

As for naming the actors or actresses in GREASE.... Can you really name any others besides John and Olivia? No googling now.

The Sound Of Music is a wonderful movie. I'll give you that. But the audience would be a different venue than GREASE. The music would not appeal to the types of people that would flock to and fill a Rock N Roll movie venue. Remake or otherwise.

Truthfully, I cannot imagine any of the songs in The Sound Of Music kicked up a notch by 'backbeats' and 'faster pacing' as you suggested. Unless the Chipmunks were offered a role. Then..... No. That just wouldn't work.

It's true, they would be different target audiences to a degree - obviously the same people who are attracted to the dirty high school appeal of Grease aren't necessarily going to be attracted to a family classic. The Sound Of Music does have cross-generational appeal though - older people who remember the original fondly, adults who watched it as kids, and families who will take their children to see it

I understand what you mean about it being hard to imagine more upbeat music than the original, but they do remixes of old songs all the time, and they're invariably popular - and like I said, Hollywood already knows that they're popular, catchy tunes that people all of ages will remember!

I also think that whether or not a movie is going to sink or swim with critics and awards ceremonies is a big consideration. A film like The Sound Of Music is a far safer choice critically than Grease - the message a movie sends can be critical to it's performance. Grease advocates changing who you are to try and 'get the guy', and that being a good girl like Sandy is something to be shied away from. The Sound Of Music is all about being who you are deep down inside and staying true to yourself. That kind of message is going to go down far better than the easy promiscuity Grease promotes, and at the end of the day Hollywood values things like awards and good reviews a lot.

A remake that messes too much with the musical score will invariably lose the draw it was intending to make in the first place. I disagree wholeheartedly about speeding up the pace of any classic musical.

As far as awards go, the content isn't as important as the actors/actresses performance(s). Take a look at some of the movies that won awards. There is a wide variety of subject matter. Comedy, Drama, etc., rated anything from G to R. Some had very controversial subject matter in their time. And still do. Anything goes in Hollywood these days.

I totally disagree with your take that GREASE promoted promiscuity. It was a love story from start to finish. A young couple meet away from high school and can be themselves and fall in love. Later when they meet again in high school, everything that happens while a student comes between them. Popularity standards on Travolta's part mainly. He's torn by it as you should have been able to deduct by how the movie's outcome shows. I saw no sex scenes that would suggest your take on the movie. One of the other girls 'thinks' she is pregnant and that eludes to her having sex..... but it in no way promotes such a thing as promiscuity.

Awards aren't won by a movie's subject being 'safe'. Awards are won on the abilities of the actors/actresses and the writers/producers/directors.

I stand by my choice. GREASE.

I respect your choice however, I still think that if Hollywood weighed up the likelihood of which movie were going to crash and burn, against which were more likely to earn them some safe profits, The Sound Of Music is a much more logical choice simply because it has far less risk involved. The Grease musical numbers have already been remixed in the past to be used in nightclubs, so it wouldn't be offering anything new musically (I know you doubt that The Sound Of Music could be redone well, but I disagree - in the last year two different pop music artists have used samples of the soundtrack on singles that were extremely popular, which suggests it could have a potentially decent reception if redone properly).

We'll have to agree to disagree on the message that Grease promotes. It might be a love story, but in the beginning it shows a young couple fall in love away from the stereotypical roles they have in high school. When they get back to school, it is impossible for Sandy to hold onto her man unless she conforms and becomes the kind of girl his friends are seen with. She has to wear tight-fitting clothing, start smoking and make countless double-entendres in order to be 'the one that he wants'. I don't call that a triumph over adversity at all. It sends the message that you won't get the guy unless you dress up and let go of your morals - that's just not a family friendly, promotable message.

THIS DEBATE IS CLOSED.

Please cast your votes by PMing me your selection for the winning argument WITH THE REASON FOR YOUR VOTE within the next 48 hours.

DO NOT POST COMMENTS IN THIS THREAD UNTIL AFTER THE RESULTS ARE ANNOUNCED.


Thank you to both participants for a very good debate.

 

[USF Sam]

Bumpity bump bump.


Just keeping this on the main page for voting.