Debate Tournament: Round 1 Act 2---- Red vs HK

[USF Sam]

TOPIC: Birth Control in Schools

A heated debate has been raging for years whether or not public high schools should make condoms freely available to its students without prior parental consent as a logical extension of their Sex Ed programs. Proponents claim that it is in the best interest of the students as it prevents both teen pregnancy and STDs and that if the students were forced to “get a note from mommy” that they would not, preferring to run the risk of unprotected sex. Opponents claim that this is a violation of parental rights and could also infringe on the religious rights of the family as well.

The root question to this debate is: "Should public schools be allowed to distribute condoms to high school students without parental consent?"

Red, you may lead off. Pick a side and state your case.

HK, you will go second and take whichever case Red does not. You will also get the benefit of having the last word.

Three posts per person, alternating. Limit 300 words per post. Quoting your opponent does not count against your 300 words.

There will be NO OTHER POSTS in this thread except for Red, HK and myself until after the debate results are announced.

Red, the floor is yours.​

 

[USF Sam]

I have updated this topic to better clarify the root topic.

A concern has been voiced in the other debate that I may be unduly limiting the discussion through my use of example arguments. This is an occupational hazard as I tend to speak in examples.

It was not my intent to restrict this debate to the examples cited. The root question is as stated above:

"Should public schools be allowed to distribute condoms to high school students without parental consent?"

 

[RedRyder]

I do not believe that public schools should be allowed to distribute condoms to high school students without parental consent. As a parent, I find it impinging on my rights as a parent to teach my own children about premarital sex and its consequences.

I realize that even in this day and age, many parents never even discuss sex with their children. The reasons are many. Most are excuses to say the least.

The concerns are warranted for public schools to try to take this step. However, time and time again you'll find that even those parents who discussed sex and contraception with their children had children who had unprotected sex and either became pregnant or got an STD (sexually transmitted disease).

If public schools wanted to produce brochures in a class setting where condom use is discussed, I would have no problem with that. But distributing condoms is going a bit too far for this parent.

 

[USF Sam]

BUMP


HK, it's your turn.

 

[HK]

I can see why you might think this issue impinges on your rights as a parent to provide appropriate sex education for your child, I think that this view can be harmful if adopted for all children. You said it yourself, not all parents take the time to discuss sex with their kids, and even those who do often limit it to one conversation once their child hits puberty. Even if we can assume that some parents will make sure their kids are prepared for sexual activity, it would be a failure of the education system to act like this can be used to justify not providing support for all pupils regardless.

The main issue here is whether your child is allowed to gain access to contraceptives without you knowing about it. How many kids are happy to openly talk to their parents about sex? Most teenagers feel embarrassed at the idea of discussing sex with their parents. Not to mention that some parents would openly disapprove, which further limits the chances of their teen turning to them for advice - this is even more likely if the teen is below the age of consent.

The best place to make contraceptives available to them then is within school. If free condoms weren't provided on request, would kids start getting parental consent? Unlikely. More likely, they'd either have to try and find them elsewhere, most likely for a charge, and a percentage of those kids wouldn't bother, which then becomes a percentage that are more at risk for STD's and pregnancy. I'd far rather know that my teen could get hold of condoms easily if he/she needed them, than think they might have unprotected sex just because they were too embarrassed to ask me to sign a form for them.

 

[USF Sam]

Excellent start to this one.


Red, you are up.



(Yes... this is basically a BUMP post)

 

[RedRyder]

I'm not asking that a school adopt my views on parenting skills when it comes to the education of my children relating to sex and condom use. I'm all for the school to provide an education relating to sex and condom use. I am saying I do not want condoms to be handed out to every student who asks without parental permission. Who knows the student best? The parents. The school offers some students a haven from their homes.... that I can understand. Unless the school actually sits down and discusses with the parents their values and thoughts on passing out condoms to their children.... and most importantly find out if the student is even capable of understanding the whole 'having sex' thing to begin with..... then I stand by my belief... that NO. No condoms handed out to students without parental permission. Period!

Too many variables as stated above.

I don't have the statistics handy on how many children actually discuss sex with their parents..... or don't. I noticed that you offered none, but said what you said anyway.

I'm all for providing sex education to children in school. You don't have to provide condoms to get points across. (Example: You can discuss someone who has died from a drug overdose and what they most likely went through without having actually experienced it.)

As for a child below the age of consent..... schools wouldn't dare hand out condoms to that group to begin with. The legalities would destroy them.

If the schools provided a well-rounded sex education program including contraceptive use and its benefits (preventing STDs, pregnancy), and the students intended on having sex.... I believe they will find a way to get the condoms. You don't give the students much credit here.

 

[HK]

Who knows the student best? The parents.

I have to disagree with this. Perhaps if we were talking about preteens, this would be true. But teenagers are developing their own independence away from their parents and their home life, and I would argue that especially in regards to sexual relationships, their parents are not the people who are likely to know every detail of their teens lives anymore.

I don't have the statistics handy on how many children actually discuss sex with their parents..... or don't. I noticed that you offered none, but said what you said anyway.

I made that comment because I was a teenager once, as most people were, and I remember what it was like. I read a lot, and I've spent a lot of time on online forums talking to teenagers and young adults. But if you want some links to articles that support my assertion that teenagers are less than likely to discuss sex with their parents:

http://www.pamf.org/teen/parents/sex/sex.html

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1945759,00.html

If the schools provided a well-rounded sex education program including contraceptive use and its benefits (preventing STDs, pregnancy), and the students intended on having sex.... I believe they will find a way to get the condoms. You don't give the students much credit here.

It's not about not giving them credit, it's about recognising that they will have sex, regardless of whether their parents approve, and there's absolutely no reason to make it any harder for them to do it safely by banning schools from giving out condoms without a parental consent form.

The parents of all the teenagers involved can have whatever views they feel like. But if their teens are old enough to be having sex, then they're old enough to make their own decisions and have their own values about sex. If your parents don't believe in premarital sex but you don't share that attitude, why should you be denied free contraception because of your parent's values?

If you have the option, why not make it easier for teens to have safe sex? If it has the potential to decrease the rising numbers of STD's and teenage pregnancy in recent times, then I'm all for it.

 

[RedRyder]

When I asked the question 'Who knows the student best' and answered 'The parents'..... you took it out of context with your reply. I was referring to the school or the parents. Others should disregard your reply in that paragraph. You're arguing with yourself for sake of argument.

I was a teenager too and not all teenagers will feel as either of us might have about sex and condoms then. I'm not debating that parents aren't forthcoming in their discussions with their children about sex, etc. I've already stated that I'm all for schools educating the children.

We're debating giving out condoms at high schools.

.... and this part....where you said ...

It's not about not giving them credit, it's about recognising that they will have sex, regardless of whether their parents approve

.... did you even read what I wrote here....

the students intended on having sex.... I believe they will find a way to get the condoms

We're practically on the same page and yet you debate what I've already basically agreed to. You've got to read all the words. Not pick and choose.

As for your argument.... that the teens are old enough to be having sex.... Age should never be the deciding factor. Maturity.... Knowledge. Those should always come first and foremost.

Are you aware that even though children know about STDs, AIDS, teenage pregnancy, and contraceptives.... many forgo using contraceptives anyway. So even if schools handed them out like candy.... the issues of STDs, pregnancy, etc., will continue. Read this link:

CLICK HERE

 

[HK]

When I asked the question 'Who knows the student best' and answered 'The parents'..... you took it out of context with your reply. I was referring to the school or the parents. Others should disregard your reply in that paragraph. You're arguing with yourself for sake of argument.

I responded to it because the issue is whether schools should be required to have parental consent to hand out condoms, and you're saying they should, which implies that the views of the parent and what they feel is best for the teen outweigh whether the teen themselves feels ready or not sex. So I do think it is relevant to say parents don't know their teens well enough to be making that decision for them, and if the school is willing to hand out condoms then I see no reason for parental involvement.

Yes, we both know teens will have sex whether their parents like it or not. The difference is, if we know that that's true, then why impede one option for contraception for them? Every little helps. Why stop at just giving them hypothetical advice on where to get contraception? School is the one place almost all teens will have to be for large portions of their lives, every day of every week, so it's the best place to make contraception available to them.

When I say they are old enough, I mean that they are of legal age depending on their country of origin, which is why I said they are old enough to be making their own decisions about their sex life without their parents.

I don't see any pro to banning schools from giving out condoms - your main argument seems to be that kids will get STD's and fall pregnant even when contraception is available, therefore there's no point even trying to begin with. Whereas I prefer to think that although it might not make a difference to every single teen out there, if it means even a minority using protection when they otherwise wouldn't have bothered, I'm for it.

 

[USF Sam]

THIS DEBATE IS CONCLUDED.
​

I am including the stringed quotes below, but please be aware that both sides used quotes which are not included. Therefore, reading the debate straight from this thread is advised.

Please PM me your votes WITH THE REASONS for your vote now.

Both ladies put a lot of thought and effort into this debate and I thank them both. Please show your appreciation by voting.

The deadline for votes will be announced after the Ed/Butterfly debate is concluded so that voting on both will end at the same time.

i do not believe that public schools should be allowed to distribute condoms to high school students without parental consent. As a parent, i find it impinging on my rights as a parent to teach my own children about premarital sex and its consequences.

I realize that even in this day and age, many parents never even discuss sex with their children. The reasons are many. Most are excuses to say the least.

The concerns are warranted for public schools to try to take this step. However, time and time again you'll find that even those parents who discussed sex and contraception with their children had children who had unprotected sex and either became pregnant or got an std (sexually transmitted disease).

If public schools wanted to produce brochures in a class setting where condom use is discussed, i would have no problem with that. But distributing condoms is going a bit too far for this parent.

i can see why you might think this issue impinges on your rights as a parent to provide appropriate sex education for your child, i think that this view can be harmful if adopted for all children. You said it yourself, not all parents take the time to discuss sex with their kids, and even those who do often limit it to one conversation once their child hits puberty. Even if we can assume that some parents will make sure their kids are prepared for sexual activity, it would be a failure of the education system to act like this can be used to justify not providing support for all pupils regardless.

The main issue here is whether your child is allowed to gain access to contraceptives without you knowing about it. How many kids are happy to openly talk to their parents about sex? Most teenagers feel embarrassed at the idea of discussing sex with their parents. Not to mention that some parents would openly disapprove, which further limits the chances of their teen turning to them for advice - this is even more likely if the teen is below the age of consent.

The best place to make contraceptives available to them then is within school. If free condoms weren't provided on request, would kids start getting parental consent? Unlikely. More likely, they'd either have to try and find them elsewhere, most likely for a charge, and a percentage of those kids wouldn't bother, which then becomes a percentage that are more at risk for std's and pregnancy. I'd far rather know that my teen could get hold of condoms easily if he/she needed them, than think they might have unprotected sex just because they were too embarrassed to ask me to sign a form for them.

i'm not asking that a school adopt my views on parenting skills when it comes to the education of my children relating to sex and condom use. I'm all for the school to provide an education relating to sex and condom use. I am saying i do not want condoms to be handed out to every student who asks without parental permission. Who knows the student best? The parents. The school offers some students a haven from their homes.... That i can understand. Unless the school actually sits down and discusses with the parents their values and thoughts on passing out condoms to their children.... And most importantly find out if the student is even capable of understanding the whole 'having sex' thing to begin with..... Then i stand by my belief... That no. No condoms handed out to students without parental permission. Period!

Too many variables as stated above.

I don't have the statistics handy on how many children actually discuss sex with their parents..... Or don't. I noticed that you offered none, but said what you said anyway.

I'm all for providing sex education to children in school. You don't have to provide condoms to get points across. (example: You can discuss someone who has died from a drug overdose and what they most likely went through without having actually experienced it.)

as for a child below the age of consent..... Schools wouldn't dare hand out condoms to that group to begin with. The legalities would destroy them.

If the schools provided a well-rounded sex education program including contraceptive use and its benefits (preventing stds, pregnancy), and the students intended on having sex.... I believe they will find a way to get the condoms. You don't give the students much credit here.

i have to disagree with this. Perhaps if we were talking about preteens, this would be true. But teenagers are developing their own independence away from their parents and their home life, and i would argue that especially in regards to sexual relationships, their parents are not the people who are likely to know every detail of their teens lives anymore.



I made that comment because i was a teenager once, as most people were, and i remember what it was like. I read a lot, and i've spent a lot of time on online forums talking to teenagers and young adults. But if you want some links to articles that support my assertion that teenagers are less than likely to discuss sex with their parents:

http://www.pamf.org/teen/parents/sex/sex.html

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1945759,00.html



it's not about not giving them credit, it's about recognising that they will have sex, regardless of whether their parents approve, and there's absolutely no reason to make it any harder for them to do it safely by banning schools from giving out condoms without a parental consent form.

The parents of all the teenagers involved can have whatever views they feel like. But if their teens are old enough to be having sex, then they're old enough to make their own decisions and have their own values about sex. If your parents don't believe in premarital sex but you don't share that attitude, why should you be denied free contraception because of your parent's values?

If you have the option, why not make it easier for teens to have safe sex? If it has the potential to decrease the rising numbers of std's and teenage pregnancy in recent times, then i'm all for it.

when i asked the question 'who knows the student best' and answered 'the parents'..... You took it out of context with your reply. I was referring to the school or the parents. Others should disregard your reply in that paragraph. You're arguing with yourself for sake of argument.

I was a teenager too and not all teenagers will feel as either of us might have about sex and condoms then. I'm not debating that parents aren't forthcoming in their discussions with their children about sex, etc. I've already stated that i'm all for schools educating the children.

We're debating giving out condoms at high schools.

.... And this part....where you said ...



.... Did you even read what i wrote here....



We're practically on the same page and yet you debate what i've already basically agreed to. You've got to read all the words. Not pick and choose.

As for your argument.... That the teens are old enough to be having sex.... Age should never be the deciding factor. Maturity.... Knowledge. Those should always come first and foremost.

Are you aware that even though children know about stds, aids, teenage pregnancy, and contraceptives.... Many forgo using contraceptives anyway. So even if schools handed them out like candy.... The issues of stds, pregnancy, etc., will continue. Read this link:

click here

i responded to it because the issue is whether schools should be required to have parental consent to hand out condoms, and you're saying they should, which implies that the views of the parent and what they feel is best for the teen outweigh whether the teen themselves feels ready or not sex. So i do think it is relevant to say parents don't know their teens well enough to be making that decision for them, and if the school is willing to hand out condoms then i see no reason for parental involvement.

Yes, we both know teens will have sex whether their parents like it or not. The difference is, if we know that that's true, then why impede one option for contraception for them? Every little helps. Why stop at just giving them hypothetical advice on where to get contraception? School is the one place almost all teens will have to be for large portions of their lives, every day of every week, so it's the best place to make contraception available to them.

When i say they are old enough, i mean that they are of legal age depending on their country of origin, which is why i said they are old enough to be making their own decisions about their sex life without their parents.

I don't see any pro to banning schools from giving out condoms - your main argument seems to be that kids will get std's and fall pregnant even when contraception is available, therefore there's no point even trying to begin with. Whereas i prefer to think that although it might not make a difference to every single teen out there, if it means even a minority using protection when they otherwise wouldn't have bothered, i'm for it.

 

[USF Sam]

The deadline for votes will be NOON EST MONDAY, JAN 31