Christian principles I wish were the ones more focused upon

[Leananshee]

Seems like a lot of threads here directed at Christianity focus on inconsistencies in doctrine, others inconsistencies in practice, with the express hope to discredit it entirely. And there are more than a few nut jobs out there taking obscure passages out of context and turning them into yet more "Christian" sects, just as there are mainstream Christians who just don't get it, many of whom are the ones I'd say are "so heavenly minded they're no earthly good". I personally have had more than a few run-ins with the hell and damnation types, and they turn my stomach. But I have also encountered a great many who do live a good life, and put others above themselves for its own sake, not for hope for reward or fear of punishment.

I guess you’d call me a non-traditional Christian, because the principles I see as most important aren’t the ones typically focused upon, at least from what I’ve seen of mainstream Christianity. But when you strip Christianity down to its basics, it actually shares a lot of principles with many other religions, most notably Hinduism and Buddhism (I'd actually been rereading the Bhagavad Gita and found quite a few very similar ones). These are the big ones that I think non-believers (and I would hope many believers) can get something from.

And, when you see them, you’ll automatically know people, Christian and not, who do and who don’t follow them. But in practice they are infectious; they pass quickly from one person to another, and should. And they don’t require subscribing to any faith to do so.

And sorry the outline won't format right, so it's more difficult to follow, I know. Sigh. I tried.

1. Love one another.
a. Treat each other, even your enemies, with persistent good will. It’s the most important of the principles, and the most often forgotten.
b. And of course, treat others as you would want to be treated. Better yet, treat them how they want to be treated.
c. Know that there’s a big world out there filled with about 7 billion people just as important as you are.
d. But know, too, that all those people are interconnected, whether they realize it or not, with one another and the world around them.
2. Forgive.
a. When you hold anger in toward someone, you actually do damage to yourself.
b. You give that person who has wronged you power over you.
c. Do you want to give someone who likely doesn’t care that kind of power?
3. Don’t judge others.
a. This is a tough one for some, especially in the age of Facebook and TMZ.
b. It just means to mind your own back porch before trying to sweep someone else’s.
4. Have faith that can move mountains.
a. The Biblical principle is that if you have faith small as a mustard seed you can command a mountain to move, and it will, which at first sounds
strange, but think about this:
b. Think about the power that holding anger in has. You’ve created an entire world around it independent of reality, arguably that takes on its
own reality. You then have the power of a god, to create this new existence and live in it or let it go.
c. If you’re feeling powerless, realize the connection with everyone and everything around you. You have more power than you realize. The
smallest drop sends ripples throughout the pool it lands in.
5. Watch your thoughts.
a. It’s supposed to be just as bad to think of something bad as it is to do it. You might think, “No way. It’s not as bad to think about killing
someone as it is to actually do it.”
b. But you are more powerful than you realize. Thoughts create their own worlds. Some of those worlds make their way into reality.

Again, these aren't intended to convert anyone, they are just posted as seeds of discussion.

 

[Minor Axis]

Seems like a lot of threads here directed at Christianity focus on inconsistencies in doctrine, others inconsistencies in practice, with the express hope to discredit it entirely. And there are more than a few nut jobs out there taking obscure passages out of context and turning them into yet more "Christian" sects, just as there are mainstream Christians who just don't get it, many of whom are the ones I'd say are "so heavenly minded they're no earthly good". I personally have had more than a few run-ins with the hell and damnation types, and they turn my stomach. But I have also encountered a great many who do live a good life, and put others above themselves for its own sake, not for hope for reward or fear of punishment.

I guess you’d call me a non-traditional Christian, because the principles I see as most important aren’t the ones typically focused upon, at least from what I’ve seen of mainstream Christianity. But when you strip Christianity down to its basics, it actually shares a lot of principles with many other religions, most notably Hinduism and Buddhism (I'd actually been rereading the Bhagavad Gita and found quite a few very similar ones). These are the big ones that I think non-believers (and I would hope many believers) can get something from.

And, when you see them, you’ll automatically know people, Christian and not, who do and who don’t follow them. But in practice they are infectious; they pass quickly from one person to another, and should. And they don’t require subscribing to any faith to do so.

And sorry the outline won't format right, so it's more difficult to follow, I know. Sigh. I tried.

1. Love one another.
a. Treat each other, even your enemies, with persistent good will. It’s the most important of the principles, and the most often forgotten.
b. And of course, treat others as you would want to be treated. Better yet, treat them how they want to be treated.
c. Know that there’s a big world out there filled with about 7 billion people just as important as you are.
d. But know, too, that all those people are interconnected, whether they realize it or not, with one another and the world around them.
2. Forgive.
a. When you hold anger in toward someone, you actually do damage to yourself.
b. You give that person who has wronged you power over you.
c. Do you want to give someone who likely doesn’t care that kind of power?
3. Don’t judge others.
a. This is a tough one for some, especially in the age of Facebook and TMZ.
b. It just means to mind your own back porch before trying to sweep someone else’s.
4. Have faith that can move mountains.
a. The Biblical principle is that if you have faith small as a mustard seed you can command a mountain to move, and it will, which at first sounds
strange, but think about this:
b. Think about the power that holding anger in has. You’ve created an entire world around it independent of reality, arguably that takes on its
own reality. You then have the power of a god, to create this new existence and live in it or let it go.
c. If you’re feeling powerless, realize the connection with everyone and everything around you. You have more power than you realize. The
smallest drop sends ripples throughout the pool it lands in.
5. Watch your thoughts.
a. It’s supposed to be just as bad to think of something bad as it is to do it. You might think, “No way. It’s not as bad to think about killing
someone as it is to actually do it.”
b. But you are more powerful than you realize. Thoughts create their own worlds. Some of those worlds make their way into reality.

Again, these aren't intended to convert anyone, they are just posted as seeds of discussion.

I like your post and support its tenants numbered 1-5. Outstanding rules to live by.

However, regarding the bolded text, I'll point out the discussion of Christianity occurs on two levels. The first level is the value and truth of the teachings. For example 1-5 are excellent rules to live by. Could these rules have a spiritual basis? Absolutely!

The second level of the discussion regards the dissection of the ultimate truth that Jesus was the literal Son of God sent here by God to try to fix humanity. This falls purely within the realm of speculation and faith based on ancient, what I like to describe as moldy documents holding no more truth in them than what is beheld in the mind of the believer. I'll also point out that these documents are undermined by the negative stories promoted by Christianity by virtue of including them in the Holy Bible such as Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, The Story of Job, etc.

 

[Tuffdisc]

To be Christian, you not only have to hold the law of the scriptures but to also worship God through Christ

 

[Minor Axis]

To be Christian, you not only have to hold the law of the scriptures but to also worship God through Christ

I know that is written in one of your moldy old scriptures, but I don't believe a reasonable God expects himself or his "son" to be worshipped. It's demeaning to his children. A reasonable God would simply want us to find our way.

 

[Tuffdisc]

I know that is written in one of your moldy old scriptures, but I don't believe a reasonable God expects himself or his "son" to be worshipped. It's demeaning to his children. A reasonable God would simply want us to find our way.

A "reasonable" God in your opinion, perhaps

 

[Minor Axis]

A "reasonable" God in your opinion, perhaps

There is always hope.

 

[Leananshee]

What I'd say about most religions is that they at some point fail because the majority of them say, "This is the Answer". That Answer is held on to with a death grip, and any challenges to The Answer are met with violence, mental or physical.

That said, those sentiments are not held solely by religion. We scorn those who in the name of religion try to get the teaching of evolution thrown out of schools, or who demand abstinence-only sex ed while the rates of teen pregnancy and STDs skyrocket. And I believe we should. I still refer to them as "flat earth Christians". But it wasn't religious people who said powered flight was impossible,

the sound barrier could not be broken, or the adult human brain could not rewire itself, it was the scientific community. Yes, indeed, there are fundamentalists in science, flat-earthers in lab coats.
​

The human brain can rewire itself? Yes, indeed, and it's been measured by fMRI. That finding will turn the fields of neuropsychiatry, neurology, psychiatry and psychology on their heads. I'm certain that there will yet be a great many holdouts against it in these fields, though. So, you don't have to be religious to be a fundie, you just have to have a sacred cow and cling to it.

What I'm suggesting, whatever a person's system of belief, is that people come up with answers that make sense for this moment, that are held loosely to, like theories that can be revised as experience necessitates revisions. If people could more easily come to that frame of thought in religion and philosophy, in my opinion at least, there would be far fewer conflicts between different ones. Competing theories would not be viewed as threats. Your views work for you or they don't. And the ones you practice are the ones you really believe.

To be Christian, you not only have to hold the law of the scriptures but to also worship God through Christ

The principle there is that by having a relationship with God someone will follow the other principles naturally. Which would also mean a great many Christians must not have that relationship going on. Salinger devoted a whole book to one particular misinterpretation of scripture in Franny and Zooey, in which Franny goes around muttering prayers, from the line in II Thessalonians which simply says, "Pray without ceasing." What it really means is to have a connection to God that's like breathing. If you can do that then yes, the other things do come naturally. That concept is also mirrored in the Vedas and in Buddhism, especially Tibetan Buddhism.

I like your post and support its tenants numbered 1-5. Outstanding rules to live by.

However, regarding the bolded text, I'll point out the discussion of Christianity occurs on two levels. The first level is the value and truth of the teachings. For example 1-5 are excellent rules to live by. Could these rules have a spiritual basis? Absolutely!

The second level of the discussion regards the dissection of the ultimate truth that Jesus was the literal Son of God sent here by God to try to fix humanity. This falls purely within the realm of speculation and faith based on ancient, what I like to describe as moldy documents holding no more truth in them than what is beheld in the mind of the believer. I'll also point out that these documents are undermined by the negative stories promoted by Christianity by virtue of including them in the Holy Bible such as Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, The Story of Job, etc.

Those rules come from the ministry of Jesus. They have a religious and spiritual basis. And as I said, many of them are mirrored in other faiths.

Then there is the religion built about Jesus that has overshadowed it, and the people who are so mired in the doctrines from it they can't live by those original principles. Why react to those who take the Bible far too literally and twist these stories into whatever demented theory they want to push on people? Why waste time with idiots like that? I can read those "moldy old books" from multiple religions and still gain something from them.

 

[Minor Axis]

What I'd say about most religions is that they at some point fail because the majority of them say, "This is the Answer". That Answer is held on to with a death grip, and any challenges to The Answer are met with violence, mental or physical.

That said, those sentiments are not held solely by religion. We scorn those who in the name of religion try to get the teaching of evolution thrown out of schools, or who demand abstinence-only sex ed while the rates of teen pregnancy and STDs skyrocket. And I believe we should. I still refer to them as "flat earth Christians". But it wasn't religious people who said powered flight was impossible,

the sound barrier could not be broken, or the adult human brain could not rewire itself, it was the scientific community. Yes, indeed, there are fundamentalists in science, flat-earthers in lab coats.
​

The human brain can rewire itself? Yes, indeed, and it's been measured by fMRI. That finding will turn the fields of neuropsychiatry, neurology, psychiatry and psychology on their heads. I'm certain that there will yet be a great many holdouts against it in these fields, though. So, you don't have to be religious to be a fundie, you just have to have a sacred cow and cling to it.

What I'm suggesting, whatever a person's system of belief, is that people come up with answers that make sense for this moment, that are held loosely to, like theories that can be revised as experience necessitates revisions. If people could more easily come to that frame of thought in religion and philosophy, in my opinion at least, there would be far fewer conflicts between different ones. Competing theories would not be viewed as threats. Your views work for you or they don't. And the ones you practice are the ones you really believe.

The principle there is that by having a relationship with God someone will follow the other principles naturally. Which would also mean a great many Christians must not have that relationship going on. Salinger devoted a whole book to one particular misinterpretation of scripture in Franny and Zooey, in which Franny goes around muttering prayers, from the line in II Thessalonians which simply says, "Pray without ceasing." What it really means is to have a connection to God that's like breathing. If you can do that then yes, the other things do come naturally. That concept is also mirrored in the Vedas and in Buddhism, especially Tibetan Buddhism.


Those rules come from the ministry of Jesus. They have a religious and spiritual basis. And as I said, many of them are mirrored in other faiths.

Then there is the religion built about Jesus that has overshadowed it, and the people who are so mired in the doctrines from it they can't live by those original principles. Why react to those who take the Bible far too literally and twist these stories into whatever demented theory they want to push on people? Why waste time with idiots like that? I can read those "moldy old books" from multiple religions and still gain something from them.

My Aunt has a copy of the Jefferson Bible which I plan on peaking at the next time I visit her. I'd like to see what Jefferson thought was the doctrine of Jesus stripped of the extraneous BS. I believe there words of wisdom to be found in scripture, but for myself, the negative tones of the Bible over shadows it's positive aspects and the pressure in the Church's I've attended to swallow the entire Christianity package as gospel is a turn off. I need to check out a Unitarian Church.

 

[Leananshee]

There have been many since Jefferson, too, that have studied what was actually said by Jesus and what was attributed later. I'll have to look up who they are. Unitarian Universalists are cool, I was one for awhile. I think some tend to be all-inclusive except for Christianity because many come in having had bad experiences with more fundamentalist sects, and I'm just not one who wants to throw out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. I still like 'em.

 

[Greatest I am]

There have been many since Jefferson, too, that have studied what was actually said by Jesus and what was attributed later. I'll have to look up who they are. Unitarian Universalists are cool, I was one for awhile. I think some tend to be all-inclusive except for Christianity because many come in having had bad experiences with more fundamentalist sects, and I'm just not one who wants to throw out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. I still like 'em.

So do I for the same reason as yourself.
I too do not want to throw the child out with the bath water.
Christianity will have to smarten up though if it plans to survive.
They also have to put some morality back into their religion.
Any religion based on human sacrifice and a God who thinks it good to punish the innocent and not the guilty, needs to check it's morality.

Regards
DL

 

[Minor Axis]

There have been many since Jefferson, too, that have studied what was actually said by Jesus and what was attributed later. I'll have to look up who they are. Unitarian Universalists are cool, I was one for awhile. I think some tend to be all-inclusive except for Christianity because many come in having had bad experiences with more fundamentalist sects, and I'm just not one who wants to throw out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. I still like 'em.

There are good moral codes to be found, my guess is in most religions. However it's people who muck it up.

So do I for the same reason as yourself.
I too do not want to throw the child out with the bath water.
Christianity will have to smarten up though if it plans to survive.
They also have to put some morality back into their religion.
Any religion based on human sacrifice and a God who thinks it good to punish the innocent and not the guilty, needs to check it's morality.

Regards
DL

Read Christianity in Crisis. It's an awesome article.

 

[Tuffdisc]

See, the problem with that article is that it says that people have lost their faith because of the Church's cover up on the abuse of children. If the church had done what was right in the first place i.e. got the priests prosecuted rather than push them to other dioceses, I don't think people on here would be focusing on that was the case because they wouldn't have an excuse.

I don't go to church to worship and praise priests and bishop, but God

 

[Minor Axis]

See, the problem with that article is that it says that people have lost their faith because of the Church's cover up on the abuse of children. If the church had done what was right in the first place i.e. got the priests prosecuted rather than push them to other dioceses, I don't think people on here would be focusing on that was the case because they wouldn't have an excuse.

I don't go to church to worship and praise priests and bishop, but God

Whose ring do you kiss? What I believe the article says is that many Catholics have lost faith or more appropriately confidence in the Church hierarchy and authority. The problem for some is that their faith in God is entwined with their church, because the church is the self appointed institution that claims to represent God by providing the documents and the salespeople promoting a particular religious dogma. However in the Church there are rules that can't be attributed to Jesus or God. I could argue this is where man has snatched the reigns from God and Jesus and is doing his own thing. I believe however much, or little we receive from God, gets muddied when filtered through the mind of man.

I've got a great example of rules. A co-worker who is protestant, a believer in Christ, married a Catholic girl in the Catholic Church. He had to go to Catholic class and promise to raise his kids in the Catholic Church. However he who is a Christian, is not allowed to participate in communion in the Catholic Church. Anyone, please provide one *GOOD* reason why this is so? The Church does not exercise power and control over people does it?

 

[Tuffdisc]

I agree with you there MA, I don't get that either myself. If I said any reason I would be lying to you and myself.

If someone says that they are Christian, they should be able to walk into any place of worship regardless of any sect. But that doesn't want me to stop going to church to praise/worship God

 

[Minor Axis]

I agree with you there MA, I don't get that either myself. If I said any reason I would be lying to you and myself.

If someone says that they are Christian, they should be able to walk into any place of worship regardless of any sect. But that doesn't want me to stop going to church to praise/worship God

I'm not implying this is you, it's a general observation.

I don't begrudge anyone taking the spiritual path they feel is the right one with the caveat they respect contrary religious opinions and allow others to worship or not worship as they see fit. In the U.S. today, I don't feel this is where we are at. I believe that the secular nature of this country is in serious jeopardy. We are only a couple of steps from becoming the Middle East. It's just a general observation.

I also believe that for any religious belief, the superior believer must be willing to field questions, accept critiques, and accept non-conformity, resisting the urge to fire back in anger or ridicule. It's obvious if someone does not share your belief, they most likely disagree with the premises upon which your belief is based on. This conclusion is logical. Most importantly is the idea of "live and let live" (unless there is human sacrifice involved ). IMO this is clearly where human organized religions have lost their way.