christ and war

[icecuban]

I have a feeling this is going to stir some things up, but I feel we all will have the same goal in mind in the end, and thats the riddance of the worlds evil, and the triumph of peace.

Does war fit into the ideals of Christ. Can one be a christian and still participate in war, and actually be doing god justice?

My view will differ with those of you who may be married, or have friends, or children in the service, and dont get me wrong, i still salute them and shake their hands. to me, they know not what they do, but their heart (if they are not doing it for a future house, or money, or security, but for the people) is in the right place, and they put their life on the line for it, which is greatly appreciated, no dout.

I just see war and battles like people trying to put water on a grease fire, seems like the only thing around that will help, but it only perpetuates the problem by causeing more fires.

shall we not kill? can we turn the other cheek? some say killing one to save thousands is good, but i feel the reprecusion of the one killing will in one way, shape, or form, result in the killing of those thousands anyways.

are the people we kill across the ocean not our neighbors too?

id love your thoughts, agree or disagree
again, i think we will all have the same goal, and thats peace in the end.

 

[dt3]

Does war fit into the ideals of Christ. Can one be a christian and still participate in war, and actually be doing god justice?

According to Catholics, yes. They believe the Pope is the infallible vessel of god, and he odered how many crusades?

Doesn't the Bible talk about a huge final war between Jerusalem and the armies of the antichrist (it's been a while, but I think I remember that)? If so, then there's at least one war god is ok with. That's the exception though.

I don't think any war exemplifies the christian ideals as I understand them.

 

[icecuban]

According to Catholics, yes. They believe the Pope is the infallible vessel of god, and he odered how many crusades?

Doesn't the Bible talk about a huge final war between Jerusalem and the armies of the antichrist (it's been a while, but I think I remember that)? If so, then there's at least one war god is ok with. That's the exception though.

I don't think any war exemplifies the christian ideals as I understand them.

i dont think it exemplifies it either. great words. no offense ya'll, but screw the pope (love u pope, but no more then other people). esspecially the popes of old, talk about corruption. crusades, sounds like what we're doin now in iraq. if there is a final war like in revelations, i interperet differently then others, so it can go with the rest of the ideals.....the final war will be waged in all of us, individualy. to be a true person, especaily in this day and age, having to overcome all that we learn from tv and such growing up, we will have to set fire to our nasty selves within, and war over control of ourselves.

 

[All Else Failed]

"Thou shalt not kill"


There's your answer.

 

[memento_mori]

sure, thou shalt not kill, but there's also that story of king david i think painting crosses on all the shields of his soldiers and god blessing them to kill.

as for christ, people say he said turn the other cheek. so no, i dont think war fits in with christ.

 

[All Else Failed]

Yeah, if anything thats just another contradictory story in the bible and other literary works.

 

[GraceAbounds]

My thoughts:

Does war fit into the ideals of Christ.

War is not ideal to Christ.

Can one be a christian and still participate in war, and actually be doing god justice?

Yes

shall we not kill?

I believe there is a difference between murder and killing. I also believe there is a difference between murder and self defense.

can we turn the other cheek?

Yes, but not to the extent of withholding protection from those entrusted to our care.

are the people we kill across the ocean not our neighbors too?

Some are. Some aren't.

 

[All Else Failed]

What about the Crusades?

 

[icecuban]

My thoughts:


War is not ideal to Christ.


Yes


I believe there is a difference between murder and killing. I also believe there is a difference between murder and self defense.


Yes, but not to the extent of withholding protection from those entrusted to our care.


Some are. Some aren't.

so disheartening grace! "some are some arent", you cant be serious? is that compassion for man? i dont believe self defense gets some special pass either, or jesus could have done something, thrown a fist back, and still been called perfect, no way, no how. there may be a difference between murder and self defence, buts its all killing, thats why it says not to kill. to think that there are things that god cannot do, like stop a bullet from getting out of the chamber, is like saying god can create the universe, but he cant make a pb&j. i dont need to "defend myself" i am already defeneded

 

[GraceAbounds]

Understand that I am not here to make anyone see things 'my' way or to do Bible study with anyone. I disagree with your 'version' of Christ and how you interpret the Bible and I prefer to respectfully agree to disagree with you Icecuban.

 

[Homer]

"Thou shalt not kill"


There's your answer.

hahahahahahahahaha HAHAHA

 

[sharpies]

Onward Christian soldiers.. etc.

It always amazes me how a religion that claims to be so loving & peaceful (wasn't it JC who said the meek shall inherit the earth) is so willing to kill, especially when one of the main tenets of the Bible is 'Thou shalt not kill".

Every branch of christianity comes up with it's own interpretation of the bible so some can kill & some can't.

At least the Muslims have the honesty to state their beliefs & carry through with them. Nearly all muslims believe that it is right to kill non muslims - mind you not all of them want to go out & do it.

Allan

 

[Tim]

I found this article about Christians and war... this is what the bible has to say about war

This is what Jesus said and did:​

In the Sermon of the Mount:
This Sermon, called the Constitution of Christianity, contains in Mat. 5 the "Law of Christ" of Gal.6:2. In it Jesus fulfilled the Law introducing several changes in Matthew 5:17-48.
One of them is about aggression, defense and war:
You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. (Mat.5:33-41).
No "eye for eye" in Christianity, but "turn the other cheek"... no revenge, no war... it is difficult to justify even the just, defensive war if one takes seriously the message of the Sermon on the Mount, which is the heart of the Gospel.
Just Love!... put the other cheek... he steals your tunic?, give him your cloak as well... it sounds incredible... impossible to follow... it is the Law of Christ, the Prince of Peace and of joy and of love... This is Christianity!.​

At Gethsemane:
Jesus is telling us what he told Peter:
"Then they came up and laid hands on Jesus and seized him. And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, and struck the slave of the high priest, and cut off his ear. Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?. But how then should the scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?"... "But Jesus said, "No more of this!" And he touched his ear and healed him." (Mat.26:50-54, Lk.22:51)...
The weapons Jesus left us are prayer and forgiveness, and love and service, trusting always in the Lord... never the sword, Jesus will bring the sword!.​

Paul in Romans:
17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil... not "an eye for an eye", but "turn the other cheek", said Jesus.
19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: It is mine to avenge; I will repay, says the Lord. ("Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord", says in the King James Version).
20 On the contrary: If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. (Rom.12:17-21).​

At Calvary, the same lesson:
Praying forgiveness for those who crucified him, "And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." (Lk.23:34).
Love and service and prayer and forgiveness were the weapons of Jesus, and love and service and prayer and forgiveness should always be the weapons of a Christian.​

The Gospel is a Good News of Peace:
- It started in Bethlehem, with the announce of the angels: Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men (Lk.2:14, KJV).
- The first words of Jesus Resurrected: Peace be with you!... Again Jesus said, Peace be with you! (Jn.20:19,21,27).

And all of this, not only in wars between nations, but also in wars within the home, wars on our streets, wars in our culture, wars within the heart...
Life is not easy. Often, we cannot choose our circumstances, but we can choose how we respond to them...
If I am a Christian, I should respond as a Christian... and it is the very best way!... the best way to obtain sure victory, and to live in peace, with joy and love always... yes, it is the Christian way, to trust always in the Lord, the real faith in action... Vengeance is mine!, says the Lord (Rom.8:28-39).​

Jesus never organized a war:
He never killed any one, and he never organized any kind of war to kill the evil-doers of his time, not anyone!.​

Jesus fought with his words, in Matthew 23:
One of the most impressive chapters of the New Testament, with the seven strong woes for his enemies, the scribes and Pharisees.
Here is the seventh one: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. So you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity." (Mt.23:27-28).
Yes, Jesus, with His attitude, taught Christians to fight back in self-defense and in defense of the truth... with very strong words!
Jesus fought also with his deeds, just with a whip out of cords: Not swords nor bombs, no blood shedding:
14 In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money.
15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables.
16 To those who sold doves he said, Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!
17 His disciples remembered that it is written: Zeal for your house will consume me. (Jn.2:14-15, Mat.21:12-13).
Yes, Jesus, with His attitude, also taught Christians to fight in defense of a good cause... but, again, he never used swords nor bombs!... never blood shedding!
Jesus said: Not peace, but division I brought:
49 I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!
51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three.
53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law. (Lk.12:49-52, Mat.10:34-39).
Yes, Jesus came to bring fire on the earth: The preaching of the gospel, and the pouring out of the Spirit, holy fire... the sentence above mentioned, "turn the other cheek" is already fire in itself!... that's War!, but within ourselves.
And yes, Jesus did not come to bring peace, but division: The effect of just the preaching of the gospel will be division... it is not just a nice philosophy, but a life, a way of life... some will accept it, others no... and that will create division...but Jesus here is not advocating war... the way to answer any division for a Christian is not war, but "put the other cheek"!... a very divisive proposition!.
Revelation predicts a time of future warfare and judgment at the return of Christ. Just as God brought judgment in the Flood, and to Sodom and Gomorrah, and in ancient Canaan, so also has He promised judgment in the future, in the Battle of Armageddon of Rev.19:11-16... all the troops of the kings of the earth "were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse" (Rev.19:21).
God is still a God of "holy war." His patience is often misinterpreted as indifference. But God is not indifferent to sin. The wages of sin are still death. A day is coming when the world will reel and shake with "holy war" once again. This final herem will make Joshua's wars seem like a pea shoot next to a nuclear war!
But this is not a war of men against men... it is by the Sword of the Mouth of Jesus... Yes, have always faith in Jesus, Vengeance is mine!, He says (Rom.12:19). See Commentary of the Sword of the LordCommentary on Psalm 2.







source

 

[icecuban]

I found this article about Christians and war... this is what the bible has to say about war

This is what Jesus said and did:

In the Sermon of the Mount:

This Sermon, called the Constitution of Christianity, contains in Mat. 5 the "Law of Christ" of Gal.6:2. In it Jesus fulfilled the Law introducing several changes in Matthew 5:17-48.
One of them is about aggression, defense and war:
You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. (Mat.5:33-41).
No "eye for eye" in Christianity, but "turn the other cheek"... no revenge, no war... it is difficult to justify even the just, defensive war if one takes seriously the message of the Sermon on the Mount, which is the heart of the Gospel.
Just Love!... put the other cheek... he steals your tunic?, give him your cloak as well... it sounds incredible... impossible to follow... it is the Law of Christ, the Prince of Peace and of joy and of love... This is Christianity!.

At Gethsemane:

Jesus is telling us what he told Peter:
"Then they came up and laid hands on Jesus and seized him. And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, and struck the slave of the high priest, and cut off his ear. Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?. But how then should the scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?"... "But Jesus said, "No more of this!" And he touched his ear and healed him." (Mat.26:50-54, Lk.22:51)...
The weapons Jesus left us are prayer and forgiveness, and love and service, trusting always in the Lord... never the sword, Jesus will bring the sword!.

Paul in Romans:

17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil... not "an eye for an eye", but "turn the other cheek", said Jesus.
19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: It is mine to avenge; I will repay, says the Lord. ("Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord", says in the King James Version).
20 On the contrary: If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. (Rom.12:17-21).

At Calvary, the same lesson:

Praying forgiveness for those who crucified him, "And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." (Lk.23:34).
Love and service and prayer and forgiveness were the weapons of Jesus, and love and service and prayer and forgiveness should always be the weapons of a Christian.

The Gospel is a Good News of Peace:

- It started in Bethlehem, with the announce of the angels: Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men (Lk.2:14, KJV).
- The first words of Jesus Resurrected: Peace be with you!... Again Jesus said, Peace be with you! (Jn.20:19,21,27).​

And all of this, not only in wars between nations, but also in wars within the home, wars on our streets, wars in our culture, wars within the heart...
Life is not easy. Often, we cannot choose our circumstances, but we can choose how we respond to them...
If I am a Christian, I should respond as a Christian... and it is the very best way!... the best way to obtain sure victory, and to live in peace, with joy and love always... yes, it is the Christian way, to trust always in the Lord, the real faith in action... Vengeance is mine!, says the Lord (Rom.8:28-39).

Jesus never organized a war:

He never killed any one, and he never organized any kind of war to kill the evil-doers of his time, not anyone!.​

Jesus fought with his words, in Matthew 23:
One of the most impressive chapters of the New Testament, with the seven strong woes for his enemies, the scribes and Pharisees.
Here is the seventh one: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. So you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity." (Mt.23:27-28).
Yes, Jesus, with His attitude, taught Christians to fight back in self-defense and in defense of the truth... with very strong words!
Jesus fought also with his deeds, just with a whip out of cords: Not swords nor bombs, no blood shedding:
14 In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money.
15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables.
16 To those who sold doves he said, Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!
17 His disciples remembered that it is written: Zeal for your house will consume me. (Jn.2:14-15, Mat.21:12-13).
Yes, Jesus, with His attitude, also taught Christians to fight in defense of a good cause... but, again, he never used swords nor bombs!... never blood shedding!
Jesus said: Not peace, but division I brought:
49 I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!
51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three.
53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law. (Lk.12:49-52, Mat.10:34-39).
Yes, Jesus came to bring fire on the earth: The preaching of the gospel, and the pouring out of the Spirit, holy fire... the sentence above mentioned, "turn the other cheek" is already fire in itself!... that's War!, but within ourselves.
And yes, Jesus did not come to bring peace, but division: The effect of just the preaching of the gospel will be division... it is not just a nice philosophy, but a life, a way of life... some will accept it, others no... and that will create division...but Jesus here is not advocating war... the way to answer any division for a Christian is not war, but "put the other cheek"!... a very divisive proposition!.
Revelation predicts a time of future warfare and judgment at the return of Christ. Just as God brought judgment in the Flood, and to Sodom and Gomorrah, and in ancient Canaan, so also has He promised judgment in the future, in the Battle of Armageddon of Rev.19:11-16... all the troops of the kings of the earth "were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse" (Rev.19:21).
God is still a God of "holy war." His patience is often misinterpreted as indifference. But God is not indifferent to sin. The wages of sin are still death. A day is coming when the world will reel and shake with "holy war" once again. This final herem will make Joshua's wars seem like a pea shoot next to a nuclear war!
But this is not a war of men against men... it is by the Sword of the Mouth of Jesus... Yes, have always faith in Jesus, Vengeance is mine!, He says (Rom.12:19). See Commentary of the Sword of the LordCommentary on Psalm 2.







source

and he answers why religion (esspecially chrisitanity) is blamed for war. "sounds incredible...impossible to follow". it is like saying true love allows the lover to look at others, but just as long as they dont touch. try not touching on the mind, sounds imcredible, hard to follow, even against our nature (a true cop out line). and people wonder why married life is given a drab feeling. its like religion, u dont want to do it to a T, then its going to suck somewhere down the road.