Capitalism vs Communism

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Peter Parka

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What is your feelings about both of these?
I personally see the best way as somthing of a mix of the two. Prejudice against both sides is stopping us making progress.
Capitalism - On the good side, rewarding people who are advancing stuff is the best motivator. On the bad side, people who dont give a shit about the disadvantaged through no thought of their own are seen as bastards.
Communism - Good side - a very caring attitude towards all. Bad side - Most people are selfish bastards so this dosen't work, I also disagree with everyone being equal, it lowers the standard of work in the country because no one gives a shit if they arn't going to be rewarded for their hard work.
 
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Re: Capitalism bv Communism

Side note: Wow @ Sophie - your girl is so breaking hearts...


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To the thread.

Neither.
 

Zorak

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Re: Capitalism bv Communism

Capitilism.

It's afforded the best quality of life for the vast majority. And that is the most important thing.

Also,todays capitilism is an ever evolving concept. It took, for example, a lot of the good points of communism; welfare etc, and took out the ridiculous parts like everyone working on a fucking farm on an Afghan desert.
 

Lord Stanley

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Re: Capitalism bv Communism

human nature dictates both will fail if pushed to extreme, happy medium is what is needed

so with that thought Mystic Meg smoking a joint will save the world
 

Accountable

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Re: Capitalism bv Communism

Capitalism is an economic system. Communism is a form of government. China does both.
 

Meirionnydd

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Re: Capitalism bv Communism

Capitilism.

It's afforded the best quality of life for the vast majority. And that is the most important thing.

Also,todays capitilism is an ever evolving concept. It took, for example, a lot of the good points of communism; welfare etc, and took out the ridiculous parts like everyone working on a fucking farm on an Afghan desert.

No it hasn't.

I wouldn't say that Capitalism is 'evolving', just adapting. You're not evolving if you just steal ideas off other economic systems.

Capitalism is an economic system. Communism is a form of government. China does both.

Communism is an economic system, and a system of government. China is just very confused, they basically combine the worst elements of both systems.
 

Minor Axis

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Re: Capitalism bv Communism

What does "bv" mean? Was that supposed to be "vs"?

Communism has always been plagued by high levels of corruption because well, people are people*. Capitalism can be plagued by high levels of corruption because well, people are people. However historically the best functioning system based on example seems to be Capitalism because it rewards effort with reward. Communism does not, at least it does not reward individuals with $, the way Capitalism does. Humans are motivated more by self enrichment than they are by community enrichment.

However for any system to function properly corruption must be stamped out. And because a goodly portion of human beings tend to become selfish with position, power, and weatlh, any system needs to have regulations in place that prevent those holding the strings from taking advantage of little people/working class, however you want to label them. Yes it IS government interfering with free enterprise just because people in many cases are selfish, greedy people. The selfishness/inflated ego trend is clearly visible in corporate boardrooms. The government is the only entity that stands in the way of average people being trampled upon by creating regulations that dictate min wage, work hours, retirement programs, etc.

If you want a good example of what Capitalism without regulations can be for the working class, look at the 1800s. If you were a mogul it was outstanding. If you were working class I think it could have been miserable. There were no labor laws that I am aware of. The system was trickle down. The wealthy ate the cake and the crumbs fell off the plate for the rest of the citizens. However it can be argued it was that system in a good location (N.America) that created a very wealthy country. (Well it used to be wealthy...)

Philosophically the question is, how should that wealth be distributed? How much do you need to live a good life? If you are the best darn CEO there is, how much do you need 3 million a year or 30 million? That extra 27 million is coming right out of someone elses pockets- investor or worker. What is moral? Individuals have to have some common basis of morality to have that discussion. How much individual reward is good for a society and at what level does it become a negative? Anyone here think a baseball player should be making 100 million? Or a baseball owner 500 million (especially when he had his stadium built at tax payer expense)? ;) Is there anyone here who could not live a most wonderful life on just 1 million a year?

*I read in a book on Virginia that when the colony was first created, the model used was "communial" such as having a common storehouse for grain. However the leader, John Smith observed there were lazy bastards among the colonists so it's reported he declared "If Ye will not work, Ye will not eat!!". :)
 

Meirionnydd

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Re: Capitalism bv Communism

That wasn't a deniable point I made.

Unless of course, the majority of people living in capitlist society did in fact live in poverty.

Capitalism doesn't provide clean drinking water for the 1.2 billion people who don't have it, nor does provide food for the 841 million people currently starving in the world. Over half of Africa lives on $1 per day and across the third-world, children and adults alike are working in sweatshop factories under horrible conditions, work hours and pay.

In Western societies those problems are less acute and in some cases non-existent. Arguably because of the social safety net the State provides to it's citizens (Welfare isn't exactly a Capitalist concept), and the fact that we exploit the rest of the world to make most of our goods.
 

Meirionnydd

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Re: Capitalism bv Communism

Humans are motivated more by self enrichment than they are by community enrichment.

That's hard to say. Strangely enough, Karl Marx made an interesting point on this issue, saying that our social environment determines human consciousness. So for example, if people grow up in a society dominated by greed and the pursuit of wealth, that's what they'll come to expect and strive for.

Psychologically speaking, this viewpoint is somewhat validated by Behaviorism, a Psychological perspective very similar to what Karl Marx proported. (Our behavior is determined by our environment, simply speaking)

One of the most interesting features of humans is that we have a need for self-actualisation. That is, to push ourselves to improve our lives, and also the lives of others. By nature, humans are not greedy and selfish like most people want to believe. If that was true, the human race would have never survived to this point.
 

Accountable

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Re: Capitalism bv Communism

That's hard to say. Strangely enough, Karl Marx made an interesting point on this issue, saying that our social environment determines human consciousness. So for example, if people grow up in a society dominated by greed and the pursuit of wealth, that's what they'll come to expect and strive for.

Psychologically speaking, this viewpoint is somewhat validated by Behaviorism, a Psychological perspective very similar to what Karl Marx proported. (Our behavior is determined by our environment, simply speaking)

One of the most interesting features of humans is that we have a need for self-actualisation. That is, to push ourselves to improve our lives, and also the lives of others. By nature, humans are not greedy and selfish like most people want to believe. If that was true, the human race would have never survived to this point.
Then why are you so against capitalism??
 
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