Big Bang theory now fact.

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Stone

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/17/us-science-bigbang-idUSBREA2G16F20140317
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/17/us-science-bigbang-idUSBREA2G16F20140317

(Reuters) - Astronomers announced on Monday that they had discovered what many consider the holy grail of their field: ripples in the fabric of space-time that are echoes of the massive expansion of the universe that took place just after the Big Bang.


This is an incredible accomplishment in expanding our knowledge of the universe.
And time for fundamentalists to stop denial of reality.





edit: removed the edit about the typo .................and thanks to the administrator that corrected it.
 
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mazHur

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Sounds funny. Why was this 'theory' being bang banged as a fact before this day?
Weren't the scientists sure about it earlier than now? Well, they still could be mistaken??
 

Stone

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Sounds funny. Why was this 'theory' being bang banged as a fact before this day?
Weren't the scientists sure about it earlier than now? Well, they still could be mistaken??


Weren't the scientists sure about it earlier than now?
There was good evidence, cosmic microwave background radiation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background
that gave credability to the theory, and experimental observation that expansion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble's_law
is occurring from a central place in the universe and now there has been the discovery of the gravity waves given off from that initial inflation that locks the theory into fact as an actual event.


Well, they still could be mistaken??
Is that a question or a wish?
No doubt this will be challenged. An element of good science is to always be skeptical.
But to be mistaken takes more than the act of a challenge, it takes scientific investigation that shows otherwise to the evidence and facts that had been found. Not the sophistry of 'creation science' nor the creationists that challenge from a religious perspective.
 

akaNeon

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I'm not sure about this new piece of evidence but what we already now, made the big bang theory a "fact" ages ago. I mean they have been teaching this stuff for at least 20 years now and present it as a fact and not a theory. The most convincing pieces of evidence are the cosmic background radiation and red-shift.
 

Stone

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I'm not sure about this new piece of evidence but what we already now, made the big bang theory a "fact" ages ago. I mean they have been teaching this stuff for at least 20 years now and present it as a fact and not a theory. The most convincing pieces of evidence are the cosmic background radiation and red-shift.




I mean they have been teaching this stuff for at least 20 years now and present it as a fact and not a theory.

It wasn't at the university where I received a degree in geology. It was taught as the most convincing theory to represent the origin of our universe.

What a science teacher and a scientist present are not always the same.

Just look at the sad state of 'creation science' being presented as science in the US.


The most convincing pieces of evidence are the cosmic background radiation and red-shift.
I think this new evidence is more than 'just compelling' when considering your statement in addition.

And I think because the research was kept hush till just a few days ago, it's taken the scientific community largely by surprise.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2014/03/secret-bicep-inflation/

It will be interesting to see how cosmologists and physicists challenge this new discovery and what else they propose from it.
 

The Man

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Am not sure how much weight to give this. .as an echo does not exist unless there is something to bounce off of.
 

Stone

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Am not sure how much weight to give this. .as an echo does not exist unless there is something to bounce off of.


Even more to the point as analogies go. An echo of sound wouldn't exist if the sound hadn't been generated in the first place.
So an 'echo ' of a gravitational wave wouldn't exist if it hadn't been generated in the first place...... in this case......inflation after the initial 'Big Bang'.

Am not sure how much weight to give this.
I wouldn't sweat it.
This is, however, going to be an issue for fundamentalists and promoters of Intelligent Design and creation science, to struggle addressing.
 

akaNeon

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Can someone explain to me what a fundamentalist exactly is and what they believe. I watched that big debate with the creationist and the scientist a couple of weeks ago. If a fundamentalist is a creationist then yes, they're going to have a problem with it.
 

Stone

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Can someone explain to me what a fundamentalist exactly is and what they believe. I watched that big debate with the creationist and the scientist a couple of weeks ago. If a fundamentalist is a creationist then yes, they're going to have a problem with it.


In the US, fundamentalism is the literal interpretation of the Christian Bible as they see it.
What some see as lessons from allegory, Garden of Eden for example , fundamentalists tend to see as fact.
The conflict between that form of religion and science generally revolves around Genesis, specifically in regard to creation.
That issue ( conflict ) covers origin of life, evolution of biological life and the origin of the universe.

Fundamentalism appears to be a very brittle faith. One small 'crack' in detail and it appears as a loss, to them, of all their faith.
To maintain their faith, they have to take the stance of denying reality where/when it conflicts with their religious beliefs, or lose that faith.

So, yeah.....the response should be interesting.


I take it you are referring to the Ham/Nye debate?
I didn't watch it.
I did read, though, that it was more a mechanism for Ham to drum up needed financial support for his creation museum in Kentucky and Nye inadvertently wound up giving Ham a stage for that hidden pitch and wasn't pleased reading about it afterwards.

I don't think those debates accomplish much in changing minds one way or the other.
 
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/17/us-science-bigbang-idUSBREA2G16F20140317




This is an incredible accomplishment in expanding our knowledge of the universe.
And time for fundamentalists to stop denial of reality.





edit: removed the edit about the typo .................and thanks to the administrator that corrected it.

I’m glad this has come to light, but I’ve believed in this theory ever since I learned that the stars in the outer part of the universe continues to move out and gains speed over time, the Red Shift theory. I think this means that the shockwave that must’ve started when the bang occurred must still be prevalent in the outer edges of the universe to cause it to keep expanding at a growing rate of speed. That’s my opinion, since I have no way to prove or disprove that one, it will continue to be my belief, but I’m glad you posted this, I didn’t know about it until now. I appreciate learning new things that are of great interest to me, like Astronomy.
 

The Man

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Even more to the point as analogies go. An echo of sound wouldn't exist if the sound hadn't been generated in the first place.
So an 'echo ' of a gravitational wave wouldn't exist if it hadn't been generated in the first place...... in this case......inflation after the initial 'Big Bang'.


I wouldn't sweat it.
This is, however, going to be an issue for fundamentalists and promoters of Intelligent Design and creation science, to struggle addressing.
It is one of many things they will refuse to address.
I am no biblical scholar but I do remember that the time frames for the beginning of earth man etc do not jive..we have fossils going way back to dinasoars and what not.
While creation(religious) essentially tries to start with mankind.
I do believe in god...I just do not believe everything that is written and accept it as fact.
Religions began long after man had been walking the earth in my opinion.
 

mazHur

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« California school exit exam prohibits questions on evolution, age of earth, and so on
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CNN piece suggests that cosmic inflation finding is evidence for God
As expected, the finding of gravitational waves from the earliest moments of the Big Bang has prompted —along with scientific exultation—the usual blathering of theologians and believers, who can’t resist connecting this new finding with God. I didn’t post about that because those blatherings were a). predictable and b). adequately covered by other websites.

But there is one that is extraordinarily silly—because it’s from CNN (the Cable News Network), a respected news source, and doubly silly because it’s written by a scientist, Leslie Wickman. CNN describes her this way:

Leslie Wickman is director of the Center for Research in Science at Azusa Pacific University. Wickman has also been an engineer for Lockheed Martin Missiles & Space, where she worked on NASA’s Hubble Space Telescope and International Space Station programs. The views expressed in this column belong to Wickman. [JAC: I'm glad they're not CNN's, but they chose to publish her!]

And, in an “opinion” piece on CNN, Wickman asks: “Does the Big Bang breakthrough offer proof of God?” The answer, surprisingly, is “yes”—in contrast to the usual saw that any column whose title is a question will answer that question in the negative.

Here are her reasons:

The prevalent theory of cosmic origins prior to the Big Bang theory was the “Steady State,” which argued that the universe has always existed, without a beginning that necessitated a cause.

However, this new evidence strongly suggests that there was a beginning to our universe.

If the universe did indeed have a beginning, by the simple logic of cause and effect, there had to be an agent – separate and apart from the effect – that caused it.

That sounds a lot like Genesis 1:1 to me: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth.”

So this latest discovery is good news for us believers, as it adds scientific support to the idea that the universe was caused – or created – by something or someone outside it and not dependent on it.

Well, we already knew, from other data that has been around a long time, that the universe had a beginning. The new data says something about what happened right after it began, and adds weight to the notion of cosmic inflation.

Besides getting that wrong, she also botches “the logic of cause and effects”, raising the old canard of the Cosmological Argument. Well, that logic doesn’t apply to quantum mechanics, does it, Dr. Wickman? Or is there a cause for making a particle pop into existence, or for an atom to decay? Can you tell us what that cause is? And if that cause is an “agent”, how do you know that that agent was the Abrahamic God? Couldn’t it have been Baal, or Brahma, or any of the thousands of Gods who have come and gone on the world scene? Or even, maybe, a space alien from another universe?

Further, if there is a simple law of cause and effect that implies an agent, well, then, what agent caused God? Or did He pop into existence like a particle, totally uncaused? Is God the only thing in the universe that doesn’t need a cause? If so, please tell us why. After all, Dr. Wickman, you’re a scientist as well as a theist, so how do you know that God doesn’t need a cause? And what was he doing hanging around before there was a universe?

Then her words fall together in a familiar pattern, like sled dogs lining up before being harnessed:

We also need to remember that God reveals himself both through scripture and creation. The challenge is in seeing how they fit together. A better understanding of each can inform our understanding of the other.

It’s not just about cracking open the Bible and reading whatever we find there from a 21st-century American perspective. We have to study the context, the culture, the genre, the authorship and the original audience to understand the intent.

The creation message in Genesis tells us that God created a special place for humans to live and thrive and be in communion with him; that God wants a relationship with us, and makes provisions for us to have fellowship with him, even after we turn away from him.

So, we know that Genesis was never intended to be a detailed scientific handbook, describing how God created the universe. It imparts a theological, not a scientific, message.

There it is: “Genesis was never intended to be a detailed scientific handbook, describing how God created the universe.” Well, Dr. Wickman, how do you know that? In fact, there’s every indication that it was intended to be a literal and historical account of how the world and its creatures came to be, and that’s how theologians interpreted it for millennia. It’s only now—now that we have the luxury of scientific knowledge—that we can see that Genesis was a form of proto-science: it was the best guess by its authors about how stuff got here, but it was stone, dead, wrong. You may now, to save the story, imbue it with whatever metaphorical meaning you want (I’m anxious to hear what “original sin” means, Dr. Wickman), but Genesis certainly imparted a message about history, and that is a “scientific” message as well as a theological one. (My translation of the familar trope “the Bible is not a science textbook” is automatically “the Bible isn’t correct”.)

Wickman goes on praising the Lord and declaring the glory of his handiwork, but it’s all embarrassing, for her, her university, and her scientific colleagues. She trots out, for instance, the fine-tuning argument, apparently not aware that the scientific findings that inspired her article lend credence to the idea of multiverses, which in turn could dispel the notion that our universe is “fine-tuned” for life:

These physical laws established by God to govern interactions between matter and energy result in a finely tuned universe that provides the ideal conditions for life on our planet.

As we observe the complexity of the cosmos, from subatomic particles to dark matter and dark energy, we quickly conclude that there must be a more satisfying explanation than random chance. Properly practiced, science can be an act of worship in looking at God’s revelation of himself in nature.

And the final entity that should be embarrassed is CNN—for blessing this unholy matrimony of science and religious drivel. I wish I could have a Marshall MacLuhan moment now, but with Sean Carroll instead of MacLuhan.

h/t: Steve

http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress...cosmic-inflation-finding-is-evidence-for-god/
 

Stone

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« California school exit exam prohibits questions on evolution, age of earth, and so on
Raccoon plays the aquatic harp »
CNN piece suggests that cosmic inflation finding is evidence for God
As expected, the finding of gravitational waves from the earliest moments of the Big Bang has prompted —along with scientific exultation—the usual blathering of theologians and believers, who can’t resist connecting this new finding with God. I didn’t post about that because those blatherings were a). predictable and b). adequately covered by other websites.

But there is one that is extraordinarily silly—because it’s from CNN (the Cable News Network), a respected news source, and doubly silly because it’s written by a scientist, Leslie Wickman. CNN describes her this way:

Leslie Wickman is director of the Center for Research in Science at Azusa Pacific University. Wickman has also been an engineer for Lockheed Martin Missiles & Space, where she worked on NASA’s Hubble Space Telescope and International Space Station programs. The views expressed in this column belong to Wickman. [JAC: I'm glad they're not CNN's, but they chose to publish her!]

And, in an “opinion” piece on CNN, Wickman asks: “Does the Big Bang breakthrough offer proof of God?” The answer, surprisingly, is “yes”—in contrast to the usual saw that any column whose title is a question will answer that question in the negative.

Here are her reasons:

The prevalent theory of cosmic origins prior to the Big Bang theory was the “Steady State,” which argued that the universe has always existed, without a beginning that necessitated a cause.

However, this new evidence strongly suggests that there was a beginning to our universe.

If the universe did indeed have a beginning, by the simple logic of cause and effect, there had to be an agent – separate and apart from the effect – that caused it.

That sounds a lot like Genesis 1:1 to me: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth.”

So this latest discovery is good news for us believers, as it adds scientific support to the idea that the universe was caused – or created – by something or someone outside it and not dependent on it.

Well, we already knew, from other data that has been around a long time, that the universe had a beginning. The new data says something about what happened right after it began, and adds weight to the notion of cosmic inflation.

Besides getting that wrong, she also botches “the logic of cause and effects”, raising the old canard of the Cosmological Argument. Well, that logic doesn’t apply to quantum mechanics, does it, Dr. Wickman? Or is there a cause for making a particle pop into existence, or for an atom to decay? Can you tell us what that cause is? And if that cause is an “agent”, how do you know that that agent was the Abrahamic God? Couldn’t it have been Baal, or Brahma, or any of the thousands of Gods who have come and gone on the world scene? Or even, maybe, a space alien from another universe?

Further, if there is a simple law of cause and effect that implies an agent, well, then, what agent caused God? Or did He pop into existence like a particle, totally uncaused? Is God the only thing in the universe that doesn’t need a cause? If so, please tell us why. After all, Dr. Wickman, you’re a scientist as well as a theist, so how do you know that God doesn’t need a cause? And what was he doing hanging around before there was a universe?

Then her words fall together in a familiar pattern, like sled dogs lining up before being harnessed:

We also need to remember that God reveals himself both through scripture and creation. The challenge is in seeing how they fit together. A better understanding of each can inform our understanding of the other.

It’s not just about cracking open the Bible and reading whatever we find there from a 21st-century American perspective. We have to study the context, the culture, the genre, the authorship and the original audience to understand the intent.

The creation message in Genesis tells us that God created a special place for humans to live and thrive and be in communion with him; that God wants a relationship with us, and makes provisions for us to have fellowship with him, even after we turn away from him.

So, we know that Genesis was never intended to be a detailed scientific handbook, describing how God created the universe. It imparts a theological, not a scientific, message.

There it is: “Genesis was never intended to be a detailed scientific handbook, describing how God created the universe.” Well, Dr. Wickman, how do you know that? In fact, there’s every indication that it was intended to be a literal and historical account of how the world and its creatures came to be, and that’s how theologians interpreted it for millennia. It’s only now—now that we have the luxury of scientific knowledge—that we can see that Genesis was a form of proto-science: it was the best guess by its authors about how stuff got here, but it was stone, dead, wrong. You may now, to save the story, imbue it with whatever metaphorical meaning you want (I’m anxious to hear what “original sin” means, Dr. Wickman), but Genesis certainly imparted a message about history, and that is a “scientific” message as well as a theological one. (My translation of the familar trope “the Bible is not a science textbook” is automatically “the Bible isn’t correct”.)

Wickman goes on praising the Lord and declaring the glory of his handiwork, but it’s all embarrassing, for her, her university, and her scientific colleagues. She trots out, for instance, the fine-tuning argument, apparently not aware that the scientific findings that inspired her article lend credence to the idea of multiverses, which in turn could dispel the notion that our universe is “fine-tuned” for life:

These physical laws established by God to govern interactions between matter and energy result in a finely tuned universe that provides the ideal conditions for life on our planet.

As we observe the complexity of the cosmos, from subatomic particles to dark matter and dark energy, we quickly conclude that there must be a more satisfying explanation than random chance. Properly practiced, science can be an act of worship in looking at God’s revelation of himself in nature.

And the final entity that should be embarrassed is CNN—for blessing this unholy matrimony of science and religious drivel. I wish I could have a Marshall MacLuhan moment now, but with Sean Carroll instead of MacLuhan.

h/t: Steve

http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress...cosmic-inflation-finding-is-evidence-for-god/

What's your point, mazHur?


A copy and paste comment of/for ....what?
 
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Stone

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just for your information...
Despite Evolution is what it is...I believe in God.


Then why quote an atheist that attacks another scientist for having a religious belief?
Coyne does not believe in God or that God had anything to do with the origin of our universe.
Maybe you need to read that article again after reading who Coyne is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Coyne
excerpt>
Born to Jewish parents, Coyne considers himself a secular Jew,[14] and an outspoken proponent of atheism, metaphysical naturalism and the conflict thesis.

All Coyne was doing in that article was criticizing Wickman for having a religious belief as a scientist.
It's not an article supporting any form of creationism.
 

mazHur

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Then why quote an atheist that attacks another scientist for having a religious belief?
Coyne does not believe in God or that God had anything to do with the origin of our universe.
Maybe you need to read that article again after reading who Coyne is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Coyne
excerpt>


All Coyne was doing in that article was criticizing Wickman for having a religious belief as a scientist.
It's not an article supporting any form of creationism.


Thanks...Have heard of Coyne but not read him

Variety is the beauty of this Universe....Atheists say many things about God. They die but God lives on.
 
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