Arizona, Really Now...

[Minor Axis]

Proposed Legislation Would Say that Arizona Can Ignore Federal Law- from NPR.

If passed and signed into law, Senate Bill 1433 would give members of the state Legislature the power to override federal laws and executive orders...

What about Article 6?:

Clause two provides that the Constitution, federal laws made pursuant to it and treaties made under its authority, constitute the supreme law of the land. It provides that state courts are bound by the supreme law; in case of conflict between federal and state law, the federal law must be applied. Even state constitutions are subordinate to federal law.

Who are these people?

 

[Alien Allen]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...on-would-allow-arizona-to-ignore-federal-laws


Who are these people?

My heroes

 

[Xeno]

Proposed Legislation Would Say that Arizona Can Ignore Federal Law- from NPR.



What about Article 6?:



Who are these people?

Those people would be deemed as moronic and very gutsy to even propose such a thing. I shall pray that someone is wearing their reading glasses when reviewing this one. It just would not make sense to allow this proposal to be approved. Then again...

...I have seen and heard of senseless laws being passed altogether in this day and age.

 

[Minor Axis]

My heroes

You are now officially under surveillance from the black helo guys.

 

[Alien Allen]

you are now officially under surveillance from the black helo guys.

--------------> :d

 

[Minor Axis]

--------------> :d

Looks like you are swallowing your tongue.

 

[Tangerine]

They've managed to devastate their own economy with the moronic immigration law, which never went into effect because of all the legal challenges anyway.

 

[Accountable]

Those people would be deemed as moronic and very gutsy to even propose such a thing. I shall pray that someone is wearing their reading glasses when reviewing this one. It just would not make sense to allow this proposal to be approved.

Why?

.

 

[Xeno]

Why?

.

One would only have to remember that this was once tried in the Articles of Confederation and did not actually work in many ways. The problem with this proposition is that the Federal Government provides a number of services for the people as well as the states within this nation. Such as mail delivery services, money, trade, and taxes are all under the Federal Government. However, when these "articles" were in effect each state printed their own money. This did not work very well for most states either. Some states charged a fee to cross the border, while others restricted what could be traded within their own state. There has to be a unified system of laws for everyone otherwise there would be discrimination, abuse of power, and an unbalance in how the law is seen and used. These are merely the thoughts of myself as well as others whom I have discussed this issue with on numerous forums. Though one cannot judge whether my views or the views of others are, indeed, correct. One can only offer an opinion and respect the opinions of others who wish for the proposition to pass overall.

 

[Alien Allen]

Too bad more states don't do this

Because what they are doing is challenging laws and regulations they believe to be unconstitutional

Some laws clearly are yet for reasons such as absurd interpretations of the Commerce Clause became law of the land

All this law in AZ would do is to bring these laws and regs to light where they will end up in the Supreme Court

To those that are against this I would ask why a state should be forced to accept a Federal Law that is unconstitutional

 

[Xeno]

...to those that are against this I would ask why a state should be forced to accept a Federal Law that is unconstitutional...

This question was already answered in a sense with my previous post. Just Saiyan.

 

[Tim]

Too bad more states don't do this

Because what they are doing is challenging laws and regulations they believe to be unconstitutional

Some laws clearly are yet for reasons such as absurd interpretations of the Commerce Clause became law of the land

All this law in AZ would do is to bring these laws and regs to light where they will end up in the Supreme Court

To those that are against this I would ask why a state should be forced to accept a Federal Law that is unconstitutional

So you are suggesting that Arizona should violate the constitution to oppose a law that they believe is in violation of the constitution? That doesn't make a bit of sense, not even in republican world.

We have laws in this country to deal with problems like this. If a state believes that a federal law is in violation of the constitution, then you challenge it in court. It's as simple as that. That's exactly why we have three branches of government. There is nothing preventing the legislative branch from passing unconstitutional laws, and that's why we have a judicial branch to verify constitutionality.
So if you have a problem with a federal law, you challenge it in the courts, you don't violate the US constitution.

 

[Alien Allen]

Tim

You missed my point

If they determine a law in their view is not constitutional then the feds would take em to court just like they currently are. This just spells it out.

This does not mean they will get away with doing whatever they want

 

[Tim]

Tim

You missed my point

If they determine a law in their view is not constitutional then the feds would take em to court just like they currently are. This just spells it out.

This does not mean they will get away with doing whatever they want

Actually the bill is saying that they won't need to follow federal laws that they deem unconstitutional... Actually it says they don't need to follow any federal law

If passed and signed into law, Senate Bill 1433 would give members of the state Legislature the power to override federal laws and executive orders...

If a federal law is within the constitutional powers of the fedgov, a state is in violation of the law if they ignore it. If a federal law is beyond the scope of constitutional power of the fedgov, it must be challenged in federal court. A state law saying the state can review any federal law and ignore it at will is unconstitutional on its face, and will be struck down. So if this bill passes, it will only waste the time and money of the federal taxpayers because we will pay for the federal court case to void this unconstitutional law.

This quote sums up my thoughts exactly. There is a process that must be followed and Arizona can't just make up their own rules.

 

[Alien Allen]

you left out the 2nd paragraph which states a committee of 12 would indicate those laws which they deem are unconstitutional

The feds won't just let AZ do what it wants

They will take AZ to court

Same as with the immigration law

I believe the reasoning of why they want to do it this way rather than to sue the feds is that when the feds sue AZ I think it would put the burden on the feds to prove their case why it is not unconstitutional

 

[Tim]

you left out the 2nd paragraph which states a committee of 12 would indicate those laws which they deem are unconstitutional

The feds won't just let AZ do what it wants

They will take AZ to court

Same as with the immigration law

I believe the reasoning of why they want to do it this way rather than to sue the feds is that when the feds sue AZ I think it would put the burden on the feds to prove their case why it is not unconstitutional

A state cannot deem a federal law unconstitutional and not comply with it. That's my point. It would be unconstitutional to pass such a law AND it would be illegal to carry it out.

 

[Tim]

you left out the 2nd paragraph which states a committee of 12 would indicate those laws which they deem are unconstitutional

The feds won't just let AZ do what it wants

They will take AZ to court

Same as with the immigration law

I believe the reasoning of why they want to do it this way rather than to sue the feds is that when the feds sue AZ I think it would put the burden on the feds to prove their case why it is not unconstitutional

The feds would not need to address whether the law is constitutional or not in this case. All the would need to do is show that they are not complying with a federal law.

 

[FreightTrain]

I feel bad for AZ and how much crap they caught for trying to tighten up on the illegal alien situation. Liberal assholes like to use political correctness (i.e. bending the truth) and call them immigrants. Last time I checked, foreigners go through a lengthy process to become immigrants of the US, not merely jumping a fence. AZ, CA, TX, and NM all have their share of illegal alien problems and they could all be prevented by a more secure border. There's nothing wrong with someone emigrating to the US the legal way. Our borders are open to those of all colors and walks of life, but there is a process. Apparently, this is why AZ is trying to break the constitution. It's not right, but I can understand their position.

 

[Tim]

I feel bad for AZ and how much crap they caught for trying to tighten up on the illegal alien situation. Liberal assholes like to use political correctness (i.e. bending the truth) and call them immigrants. Last time I checked, foreigners go through a lengthy process to become immigrants of the US, not merely jumping a fence. AZ, CA, TX, and NM all have their share of illegal alien problems and they could all be prevented by a more secure border. There's nothing wrong with someone emigrating to the US the legal way. Our borders are open to those of all colors and walks of life, but there is a process. Apparently, this is why AZ is trying to break the constitution. It's not right, but I can understand their position.

Oh please, it has nothing to do with political correctness. And you should really educate yourself on the illegal immigration problem in Arizona before you feel sorry for them. The law they tried to pass was nothing more than a dog and pony show for the idiots that don't bother to educate themselves about the situation.
If Arizona was serious about the problem, they would have enforced a law they put into effect years ago. This law would be a hell of a lot more effective than the piece of crap they tried to pass. But no, the governor would rather be a media whore than to actually fix the problem.

 

[FreightTrain]

Oh please, it has nothing to do with political correctness. And you should really educate yourself on the illegal immigration problem in Arizona before you feel sorry for them. The law they tried to pass was nothing more than a dog and pony show for the idiots that don't bother to educate themselves about the situation.
If Arizona was serious about the problem, they would have enforced a law they put into effect years ago. This law would be a hell of a lot more effective than the piece of crap they tried to pass. But no, the governor would rather be a media whore than to actually fix the problem.

Apparently, you misunderstood me. The political correctness that bothers me is calling an illegal alien an immigrant. If they're not here legally, then they should go back home. Be it Mexico, China, Central America, or wherever. We're not exactly thriving, economically like we have been in the past. Our gov't hands out enough benefits for people who need it. We don't need to be feeding, educating, and providing for illegal aliens on top of that! Our nation was built upon immigrants who followed procedures, learned our language, and embraced our laws and ideals.