An Exercise in Thought

[edgray]

Premise:
God was once used to explain the weather and the tides. God once explained the sunrise and the sunset and the seasons.

Then we discovered this to be false.

God then was once then used to explain the creation of the Earth and, life and human existence.

Then we discovered this explanation was false.

God was then used to explain explain the moon and the stars.

Then we discovered this explanation was also false.

Now God explains the creation of the universe and all of it's governing laws, matter and energy.

Question:
Would it be such a big leap to think that we may very well be wrong about that, given our so-far 100% failure rate?

Possibilities:
So if God did not create the universe, and it was simply a reaction to two dimensional planes colliding, the place where God can now exist is beyond those multiple dimensions.

If we detect the existence of something else beyond our universe, which is being theorized by scientists at the moment, how much farther are we pushed away from our previously held notions about who or what God is?

The immensity of finding another reality beyond the known universe, how big does the make God, and our unfamthomably tiny size in comparison? We may not find him in this new multiverse, which pushes him away further still - what's beyond the multi-verse?

None of this means of course that God doesn't exist. But it does make us have to question what we think God may be.

There has also been the theory that it is possible to create new universes, in the laboratory. If this turns out to be possible, and scientists create a new universe, what does this tell us about God's nature? Is he simply a scientist himself, exploring and understanding the nature of his own reality? In which case, would he even be aware of our existence? Or would he too, like us, be unsure of our existence, only theorizing that we are here. He must be aware of the possibility. Perhaps his experiment was for that express purpose: to build universes with laws capable of supporting life? Perhaps he does nothing more than make these universes, one after the other, each with it's own unique dimensions, unrecognizable to ours, in which other forms of life have emerged. Perhaps he is working on ways to detect us, studying the universe we live in, just like we are. Exploring the laws of the universe, the effect of matter, time, space, energy and the four forces that form our reality? Interestedly searching for signs that his experiment worked, and he has indeed created life.

Perhaps he's looking down on us with the very same confusion, the same wonder, and the same fear, in which we're looking back at him.

-------

Ok here's the game:
If you're an atheist, agnostic or otherwise undecided someway about the existence of God, understand that from the top examples, humans have a remarkable tendency to be wrong. Have a look at the universe through this idea of a creator of some kind, think how we could be wrong and there indeed could be a creator, and think what that creator could be like.

If you subscribe to a religion, believe in God or some other kind of spiritual belief, see if you can do the same: look at the universe through this idea and this idea alone, not through any religious doctrine, and see what God could possibly be like in light of the new scientific understanding of the world.

Post your thoughts

 

[pjbleek]

Ed, I am no scientist, religious leader, world leader, etc. there are scientific basis for everything in this life and as far as I can tell it is a matter of time when scientists will find facts that will continously disband the world to its microorganism. It is sad that people are on a quest to squash all attempts at a true Creator. While it seemed absurd to think the universe was indeed made in seven days, the fact that people are researching the universe and its beginings are wonderfully exciting just the same. I am in acceptance that creation was a "mistake" by the collective cosmos. So, just sit back and enjoy the show,because it sounds a hell of a lot more entertaining then what we have held as a "big bang theory" science always will push boundaries of peoples thinking and it is with that pushing that pushes aside religion. Not to say that it is not possible that a Creator could have done such a mystery, but then again....

 

[Minor Axis]

Premise:
God was once used to explain the weather and the tides. God once explained the sunrise and the sunset and the seasons.

Then we discovered this to be false.

God then was once then used to explain the creation of the Earth and, life and human existence.

Then we discovered this explanation was false.

God was then used to explain explain the moon and the stars.

Then we discovered this explanation was also false.

Now God explains the creation of the universe and all of it's governing laws, matter and energy.

I'm having a problem with your premise. The problem is the categorization of God. If God is described as a force , maybe an intelligent force, maybe not, a force we really don't understand, a force we don't necessarily have a personal relationship with, that caused the universe to come into existence, I'd say that has not been disproven. Because if the universe is a sandbox developing as per chance, based on the phyics, energy, and motion of matter you'd have to return to the event that created it all and say whatever it is, this is responsible. This if viewing the force called God in the most abstract of terms.

Ed, I am no scientist, religious leader, world leader, etc. there are scientific basis for everything in this life and as far as I can tell it is a matter of time when scientists will find facts that will continously disband the world to its microorganism. It is sad that people are on a quest to squash all attempts at a true Creator. While it seemed absurd to think the universe was indeed made in seven days, the fact that people are researching the universe and its beginings are wonderfully exciting just the same. I am in acceptance that creation was a "mistake" by the collective cosmos. So, just sit back and enjoy the show,because it sounds a hell of a lot more entertaining then what we have held as a "big bang theory" science always will push boundaries of peoples thinking and it is with that pushing that pushes aside religion. Not to say that it is not possible that a Creator could have done such a mystery, but then again....

This is how I feel, the only chance we have of knowing what is what is based on having a spirit that continues on. This is by no means a certainty. And even if we do have souls, it is no guarantee that upon moving into the spiritual plane that all questions will be answered. The mystery most likely will continue.

 

[edgray]

I'm having a problem with your premise. The problem is the categorization of God. If God is described as a force , maybe an intelligent force, maybe not, a force we really don't understand, a force we don't necessarily have a personal relationship with, that caused the universe to come into existence, I'd say that has not been disproven. Because if the universe is a sandbox developing as per chance, based on the phyics, energy, and motion of matter you'd have to return to the event that created it all and say whatever it is, this is responsible. This if viewing the force called God in the most abstract of terms.

So you're openly altering God all of a sudden? What kind of force? Certainly not one in this universe. We know the forces that govern the universe, and God isn't one of them.

Ok a bit of clarity:

God has been used to describe natural phenomena in a growing degree of magnitude over time. First, our world was small, so God was used to explain the little we saw. Then, once that was explained with science, God's reach got bigger, suddenly he made the Earth and the Heavens and created man (all in 6 days according to religious doctrine). We know this wasn't remotely close to what actually happened.

What I'm saying, is that religion has painted a picture of God's hand, willfully altering the physical world. We know this not to be true. And with every explanation, he gets further removed from what we've been told about him.

As for this:

The problem is the categorization of God. If God is described as a force , maybe an intelligent force, maybe not, a force we really don't understand, a force we don't necessarily have a personal relationship with, that caused the universe to come into existence, I'd say that has not been disproven.

Well this is the entire point isn't it? if you read back , the point isn't that God doesn't exist, the point is he may exist OUTSIDE of our universe, perhaps as the creator of it. Which kind of destroys all previously held religious notions of God creating the Earth and man etc.

The premise still stands, and it is correct (within a 99.9% probability).

With that in mind, what now for the creator? What form, if any, would he have?

 

[Minor Axis]

So you're openly altering God all of a sudden? What kind of force? Certainly not one in this universe. We know the forces that govern the universe, and God isn't one of them.

What do you mean all of a sudden? I'm very consistent on the definition of God, the more abstract, the more viable the definition, because if God exists, we certainly don't know much if anything about him, regardless of what the raving theists say.

Ok a bit of clarity:

God has been used to describe natural phenomena in a growing degree of magnitude over time. First, our world was small, so God was used to explain the little we saw. Then, once that was explained with science, God's reach got bigger, suddenly he made the Earth and the Heavens and created man (all in 6 days according to religious doctrine). We know this wasn't remotely close to what actually happened.

What I'm saying, is that religion has painted a picture of God's hand, willfully altering the physical world. We know this not to be true. And with every explanation, he gets further removed from what we've been told about him.

The scripts the Bible and Quran are based on is an attempt by ancient man to explain the 'big picture'. I think both you and I would agree they missed the mark or at a minimum there is not a shred of evidence that they are correct. It's just faith talking.

I don't believe there is any evidence of something called 'God' altering the physical world. But does this preclude a mechanism of something completely beyond our current abilities to detect it, something that is wrapped within the physics of this universe? Once concepts such as spirits, spiritual planes, parallel universes, and such are brought into the picture, then there could be mechanisms we are not aware of. It does not mean they exist, but it means there could be something going on behind the scenes that is not evident. Sure, if you are going to limit yourself to what can be proven, this idea is easy to dismiss. And I have no problem if you do. Just don't say that a force some people call 'God' has been disproven. As I read the rest of this post, that does not seem to be what you ment.

Well this is the entire point isn't it? if you read back , the point isn't that God doesn't exist, the point is he may exist OUTSIDE of our universe, perhaps as the creator of it. Which kind of destroys all previously held religious notions of God creating the Earth and man etc.

If that is your point, then my apologies. I'm very sympathetic to this view. Within the confines of this discussion I see three possibilities:

1) By some unknown mechanism a force caused the universe as we know it to be created. No 'god our father' qualities can be attributed to this force.
2) An intelligent force called 'God' created the universe on purpose, but allows it to develop on it's own without interference. 'God our Father' qualities maybe, maybe not.
3) Similar to No.2 but by some unknown mechanism, God is our buddy and influences events on Earth to help the many souls located here.

Based on my feelings, I have ordered these possibilities from most probable to least probable. But I can't discount any of them. I'd be lying if I said I've never been thrust into a high pressure situation where the outcome has been favorable and in the back of my mind I have a feeling that I was getting some kind of help, maybe just positive vibes from a team of unkown cheerleaders. It's nothing I can put my finger on and could very well be originating in my own brain.

If this force called 'God' does influence events it is either so subtle it falls within the realm of chance or it's by a mechanism we can't detect. But none of this reaches a basis for believe. It is just fanciful speculation.

 

[pjbleek]

but is it all possible that if humankind pushed the buttons of life that someone would be willing to push the boundaries of the unknown? we know that now human could travel the outer edges of the galaxy, but what happens when Voyager goes the furthest point and finds another place like Earth? Might this life be a stepping stone that leads to another and so on...? the possibilities are indeed endless, but it can only go as far as the brain can comprehend it. (or could it be so difficult that we might not ever understand ) .What can we expect from another life form that is at its wits end as well and sent its technology to us, like a Voyager?

What if after all, the dolphins have all the answers?..

 

[edgray]

but is it all possible that if humankind pushed the buttons of life that someone would be willing to push the boundaries of the unknown? we know that now human could travel the outer edges of the galaxy, but what happens when Voyager goes the furthest point and finds another place like Earth? Might this life be a stepping stone that leads to another and so on...? the possibilities are indeed endless, but it can only go as far as the brain can comprehend it. (or could it be so difficult that we might not ever understand ) .What can we expect from another life form that is at its wits end as well and sent its technology to us, like a Voyager?

What if after all, the dolphins have all the answers?..

those dolphins can't be trusted PJ. They may have the answers, but they keep on messing up our tuna fishing nets.

I think you've just kind of hit the nail on the head in a very roundabout kind of way.

Our perception of life, and the world around us, is always moving forward, one discovery at a time... In the same sense, it could very well be that this life in it's entirety is a stepping stone to another world we reach after death... Or it could simply be we move further out into the universe, be it physically or spiritually in some way.

I imagine if an object like voyager, sent from another planet on the other side of the galaxy, it'd end up getting returned to them with the wing mirrors ripped off and the stereo missing

 

[edgray]

What do you mean all of a sudden? I'm very consistent on the definition of God, the more abstract, the more viable the definition, because if God exists, we certainly don't know much if anything about him, regardless of what the raving theists say.

Not your particular notion of God, but the notion of God as pushed by organised religion. God has a gender, He, and He made us in his image, so he has to have some kind of physical form resembling ours.

This is the stuff that's really not to be trusted at all. We know God didn't directly create us, we evolved from simpler life forms.

If you take your reasoning however to it's logical conclusion, that is, God in it's most potentially abstract terms, you could just say everything IS God. Again, it would still be a guess tho, no matter how irrefutable.

The scripts the Bible and Quran are based on is an attempt by ancient man to explain the 'big picture'. I think both you and I would agree they missed the mark or at a minimum there is not a shred of evidence that they are correct. It's just faith talking.

I think the best way to look at the religious scripture is to understand it as a metaphor. All civilisations around the globe have creation myths, for example. Why is it only the largest religions that take them as literal?

I studied some hindu a good few years ago at the request of my father in law. It was interesting reading that the hindu faith is simply built upon "Gods" that represent the physical world around us. They were invented by the scholars of the day to explain natural phenomenon to the peasants.

I would say the Bible is at best a myth, like the hindu teaching. We know that all of the claims regarding the creation of the Earth and mankind to be erroneous. Why is it a worrying number of believers cannot see that?

I don't believe there is any evidence of something called 'God' altering the physical world. But does this preclude a mechanism of something completely beyond our current abilities to detect it, something that is wrapped within the physics of this universe? Once concepts such as spirits, spiritual planes, parallel universes, and such are brought into the picture, then there could be mechanisms we are not aware of. It does not mean they exist, but it means there could be something going on behind the scenes that is not evident. Sure, if you are going to limit yourself to what can be proven, this idea is easy to dismiss. And I have no problem if you do. Just don't say that a force some people call 'God' has been disproven. As I read the rest of this post, that does not seem to be what you ment.

I think labeling anything spiritual does it a disservice. If we are indeed able to detect a multiverse, that is, another reality beyond the known universe, why must it be spiritual or mystical in nature? Given how in spite of thousands of years of spiritual and religious claims, we haven't found one shred of evidence or proof of any of it? Might it not be highly likely then that once we see beyond our universe, we might see something that's totally unrecognisable to us, but something that WILL be governed by laws of some kind.

This is the problem I have personally with attributing the unknown to mystical forces: everything about our universe is rational. As soon as spirituality is brought into the picture, things are "explained" with magic, and that's just a massive copout - intellectually flawed and and insult to any creator, should there be one.

As for God being disproven, that's not what I said, I guess I need to reword something somewhere. What I meant was that God's hand in a particular phenomenon has been disproven. Take the Earth. Religious doctrine tells us God created the Earth. But he didn't. It formed from the dust cloud of an exploding star, over a period of millions of years. No hand of God there. So that knowledge pushes God further away - no longer has his hand touched our very planet and sculpted it.

If that is your point, then my apologies. I'm very sympathetic to this view. Within the confines of this discussion I see three possibilities:

1) By some unknown mechanism a force caused the universe as we know it to be created. No 'god our father' qualities can be attributed to this force.
2) An intelligent force called 'God' created the universe on purpose, but allows it to develop on it's own without interference. 'God our Father' qualities maybe, maybe not.
3) Similar to No.2 but by some unknown mechanism, God is our buddy and influences events on Earth to help the many souls located here.

Based on my feelings, I have ordered these possibilities from most probable to least probable. But I can't discount any of them. I'd be lying if I said I've never been thrust into a high pressure situation where the outcome has been favorable and in the back of my mind I have a feeling that I was getting some kind of help, maybe just positive vibes from a team of unkown cheerleaders. It's nothing I can put my finger on and could very well be originating in my own brain.

It's a good list.

Interesting and I can see that you view God as a force, rather than a person or being... that might not sit well with the religious tho... think dude with a beard sitting on a cloud...

Number 2 is of big interest to me. Bearing in mind that in principle scientists already believe they can create a universe in the lab, is it so unplausible to think that God might be just like our scientists, conducting experiements, unsure of our existence, and certainly not omnipotent?

Number 3 is where the problems start. God guiding anything in the natural world is highly suspect because it cannot be detected, it seems to defy logic in it's choices (you know, giving that noob the day off work on one hand, but killing people in a storm on the other) and it breaks all of the laws of the universe in one swoop.

If this force called 'God' does influence events it is either so subtle it falls within the realm of chance or it's by a mechanism we can't detect. But none of this reaches a basis for believe. It is just fanciful speculation.

well said!

 

[Minor Axis]

Not your particular notion of God, but the notion of God as pushed by organised religion. God has a gender, He, and He made us in his image, so he has to have some kind of physical form resembling ours.

Just said 'he' because mostly that is what it is referred as. I see no reason for a divine being to need a gender, but who knows.

This is the stuff that's really not to be trusted at all. We know God didn't directly create us, we evolved from simpler life forms.

Agreed. However the theist if they can bring themselves to believe in evolution go the 'intelligent design' route as in God pushed evolution in the direction it needed to go to create human beings.

If you take your reasoning however to it's logical conclusion, that is, God in it's most potentially abstract terms, you could just say everything IS God. Again, it would still be a guess tho, no matter how irrefutable.

Yes. We really don't the limits of 'God' where it starts and where it ends as compared to where we start and end.

I think the best way to look at the religious scripture is to understand it as a metaphor. All civilisations around the globe have creation myths, for example. Why is it only the largest religions that take them as literal?

No clue. Ancient scriptures written by ancient superstitious men- strike one. Selling an agenda- strike two. Strike three- your choice.

I studied some hindu a good few years ago at the request of my father in law. It was interesting reading that the hindu faith is simply built upon "Gods" that represent the physical world around us. They were invented by the scholars of the day to explain natural phenomenon to the peasants.

Your view or the Hindu view?

I would say the Bible is at best a myth, like the hindu teaching. We know that all of the claims regarding the creation of the Earth and mankind to be erroneous. Why is it a worrying number of believers cannot see that?

They are human beings?

I think labeling anything spiritual does it a disservice. If we are indeed able to detect a multiverse, that is, another reality beyond the known universe, why must it be spiritual or mystical in nature? Given how in spite of thousands of years of spiritual and religious claims, we haven't found one shred of evidence or proof of any of it? Might it not be highly likely then that once we see beyond our universe, we might see something that's totally unrecognisable to us, but something that WILL be governed by laws of some kind.

Until we can understand and verify a concept (multiverse or spiritual plane) it is mystical in nature.

This is the problem I have personally with attributing the unknown to mystical forces: everything about our universe is rational. As soon as spirituality is brought into the picture, things are "explained" with magic, and that's just a massive copout - intellectually flawed and and insult to any creator, should there be one.

This lends itself to the idea of parallel universes that might have different physical laws or a plain of existence that transcends what we can detect and understand. But this is clearly in the realm of speculation or wild ass guessing.

As for God being disproven, that's not what I said, I guess I need to reword something somewhere. What I meant was that God's hand in a particular phenomenon has been disproven. Take the Earth. Religious doctrine tells us God created the Earth. But he didn't. It formed from the dust cloud of an exploding star, over a period of millions of years. No hand of God there. So that knowledge pushes God further away - no longer has his hand touched our very planet and sculpted it.

I can buy that.

It's a good list.

Interesting and I can see that you view God as a force, rather than a person or being... that might not sit well with the religious tho... think dude with a beard sitting on a cloud...

Yes maybe a force, maybe intelligent, maybe cares about us. Lots and lots of maybes.

Number 2 is of big interest to me. Bearing in mind that in principle scientists already believe they can create a universe in the lab, is it so unplausible to think that God might be just like our scientists, conducting experiements, unsure of our existence, and certainly not omnipotent?

If you can teleport and surround yourself with a force field, some native is going to think you are a god.

Number 3 is where the problems start. God guiding anything in the natural world is highly suspect because it cannot be detected, it seems to defy logic in it's choices (you know, giving that noob the day off work on one hand, but killing people in a storm on the other) and it breaks all of the laws of the universe in one swoop.

We don't know why a tornado forms. We really don't know why it moves one way or another. Maybe it is God's attempt to thin out the species.

well said!

Thanks.

 

[edgray]

Just said 'he' because mostly that is what it is referred as. I see no reason for a divine being to need a gender, but who knows.

I would be inclined to agree with this. We have no idea what gender, if any, God might have.

Agreed. However the theist if they can bring themselves to believe in evolution go the 'intelligent design' route as in God pushed evolution in the direction it needed to go to create human beings.

Yes and the intelligent design "science" is just baloney. I don't think you can actually perform scientific study with an answer first, then work backward, which is what they're doing. It's a total fallacy, and the very antithesis of the scientific process.

Yes. We really don't the limits of 'God' where it starts and where it ends as compared to where we start and end.

Problem is, if you define God as everything and everything as God, it creates a very deterministic view of the world which is highly dangerous. Suddenly, everything can be explained as God's will... war, famine, poverty, drought... some of this already is, through the abstraction of the "invisible hand" (God) that governs the marketplace...

Your view or the Hindu view?

The hindu view, though only from the scholars.

They are human beings?

Possibly quite deluded ones...

Until we can understand and verify a concept (multiverse or spiritual plane) it is mystical in nature.

No I think that's a big misconception. Mystical implies something that is beyond comprehension, something relating to God. Just because at this moment in time it's just a concept, and may prove to be true or false, it doesn't necessarily have to be magical and mystical. Given how everything we once described as mystical has now been shown not to be, why should we think our 100% failure rate in this regard not to continue?

In the dictionary sense of the word, yes, it could be considered mystical, but certainly not in any magical sense.

This lends itself to the idea of parallel universes that might have different physical laws or a plain of existence that transcends what we can detect and understand. But this is clearly in the realm of speculation or wild ass guessing.

There are some theoretical physicists that are working in a direction of gravity being a force from another dimension or universe that is leaking over into our own... further investigation into this field might present a clearer case for parallel universes. The maths at this moment seem to stacking up nicely.

I can buy that.

yours for 5€.

Yes maybe a force, maybe intelligent, maybe cares about us. Lots and lots of maybes.

If it's a force, then that kind of knocks intelligence out right away. Gravity is a force, but it does the same thing in every situation based on it's own laws - that is, there is no decision process needed, so no intelligence...

If you can teleport and surround yourself with a force field, some native is going to think you are a god.

but not omnipotent... just really super

We don't know why a tornado forms. We really don't know why it moves one way or another. Maybe it is God's attempt to thin out the species.

Some aspects of a tornado's genesis are unknown, but just because we can't fully explain something does not infer that God has a hand in it. More likely it's just a simple case of time and resources. We will fully understand them one day, it just takes a long time to get in their an hammer out all of the fine details.

Thanks.

You are welcome.

 

[Minor Axis]

No I think that's a big misconception. Mystical implies something that is beyond comprehension, something relating to God. Just because at this moment in time it's just a concept, and may prove to be true or false, it doesn't necessarily have to be magical and mystical. Given how everything we once described as mystical has now been shown not to be, why should we think our 100% failure rate in this regard not to continue?

I'm not an expert, but I would suggest mystical is below a certain level of understanding.

If it's a force, then that kind of knocks intelligence out right away. Gravity is a force, but it does the same thing in every situation based on it's own laws - that is, there is no decision process needed, so no intelligence...

Could be a force or a force wielded by something with a purpose. We sway towards our personal preference.

Some aspects of a tornado's genesis are unknown, but just because we can't fully explain something does not infer that God has a hand in it. More likely it's just a simple case of time and resources. We will fully understand them one day, it just takes a long time to get in their an hammer out all of the fine details.

No intent to infer on my part, simply saying that there are lots of things that happen that we know how they happen, but in the case of a tornado, we don't know why identical storms, some do and some don't result in tornadoes. Yes eventually we may know what the exact tipping point is that creates one. Don't take this as an argument for God.

 

[Xeno]

Premise:
God was once used to explain the weather and the tides. God once explained the sunrise and the sunset and the seasons.

Then we discovered this to be false.

God then was once then used to explain the creation of the Earth and, life and human existence.

Then we discovered this explanation was false.

God was then used to explain explain the moon and the stars.

Then we discovered this explanation was also false.

Now God explains the creation of the universe and all of it's governing laws, matter and energy.

Question:
Would it be such a big leap to think that we may very well be wrong about that, given our so-far 100% failure rate?

Possibilities:
So if God did not create the universe, and it was simply a reaction to two dimensional planes colliding, the place where God can now exist is beyond those multiple dimensions.

If we detect the existence of something else beyond our universe, which is being theorized by scientists at the moment, how much farther are we pushed away from our previously held notions about who or what God is?

The immensity of finding another reality beyond the known universe, how big does the make God, and our unfamthomably tiny size in comparison? We may not find him in this new multiverse, which pushes him away further still - what's beyond the multi-verse?

None of this means of course that God doesn't exist. But it does make us have to question what we think God may be.

There has also been the theory that it is possible to create new universes, in the laboratory. If this turns out to be possible, and scientists create a new universe, what does this tell us about God's nature? Is he simply a scientist himself, exploring and understanding the nature of his own reality? In which case, would he even be aware of our existence? Or would he too, like us, be unsure of our existence, only theorizing that we are here. He must be aware of the possibility. Perhaps his experiment was for that express purpose: to build universes with laws capable of supporting life? Perhaps he does nothing more than make these universes, one after the other, each with it's own unique dimensions, unrecognizable to ours, in which other forms of life have emerged. Perhaps he is working on ways to detect us, studying the universe we live in, just like we are. Exploring the laws of the universe, the effect of matter, time, space, energy and the four forces that form our reality? Interestedly searching for signs that his experiment worked, and he has indeed created life.

Perhaps he's looking down on us with the very same confusion, the same wonder, and the same fear, in which we're looking back at him.

-------

Ok here's the game:
If you're an atheist, agnostic or otherwise undecided someway about the existence of God, understand that from the top examples, humans have a remarkable tendency to be wrong. Have a look at the universe through this idea of a creator of some kind, think how we could be wrong and there indeed could be a creator, and think what that creator could be like.

If you subscribe to a religion, believe in God or some other kind of spiritual belief, see if you can do the same: look at the universe through this idea and this idea alone, not through any religious doctrine, and see what God could possibly be like in light of the new scientific understanding of the world.

Post your thoughts

As usual, I do not support the fact that God does or does not exist. However, science is able to explain a lot in this day and age. It does seem plausible that perhaps God is leaning towards a more fictional role here on Earth. But there are so many things science has yet to answer either. What created the universe and whatever created the universe...well...what created that? No matter how much science seems to answer there is always a question on how did that event or source come about in our galaxy. So that just leads me to believe that there is something out there worth believing in, but I can not say it is God either. Both ways, we are still at square one even in the year 2011. Though I am sure we will eventually find some answers that are 100% sound proof. Till then...just my own thoughts as usual.

 

[JoeCool10]

Because NO ONE knows what is out there, why we are here, where this universe came from, I choose to not believe in any one thing alone. I leave my mind open for the numerous possibilities that there are or could be. My thinking is, I'm going to live my life well, do what needs to be done, be a good mother to my child, a good member of society and a lover, partner and best friend to the man I love. If there is a God, and he is the merciful, all powerful, all knowing, forgiving God that the Christian/Catholics/Evangelists/Mormons say he is, then when I die, and I've lived my life right, He should understand my method of thinking, right? If there is a Buddah, or if Jesus really wasn't the Messiah, the Bible wasn't really the "Good Book", Scientology was really a scam, evolution had everything to do with it, will we even know when we die? I think, at this time in my life anyway, that the reason for belief and faith in a higher power is because people need something/someone to let them know everything is going to be okay in their lives. Some people take religion and belief WAY too far, and in my opinion, for what? Anyway, rant over. Hope you understood that jumbled mess, lol.