America's Middle Class is dying and the stats prove it

[kelvin070]

This is a good read for you guys.

Once the United States had the largest and most prosperous middle class in the history of the world, but that's ending at a blinding pace.

The new 'global economy' means that middle class American workers have to directly compete for jobs with people on the other side of the world where there is no minimum wage and practically no regulations.

If the socialism the Tea Party is shouting about means anything in the U.S. anymore it refers to the golden circle of the super rich, who are profiting at unheard of rates whilst the rest of this nation suffers.

U.S. Corporations have grown massively rich exploiting third world labor pools, but middle class American workers have increasingly lost out.

http://www.irishcentral.com/story/e...is-dying-and-the-stats-prove-it-99180624.html

 

[Minor Axis]

If you live in the U.S. or any Western Country, the number one threat to your lively hood and standard of living is globalization and corporate heads who are dying to export your job.

The link is a good, sad read. I agree with its conclusion. The most sad thing is that countries are formed for the common good. But we have a situation where those at the top gleefully screw those in the middle and bottom for their one true loyalty- profits. Sure they will tell you it's "just business". This is why short of revolution, the only hope the average person has is a proactive government who reigns in excesses. And that hope greatly diminishes when a large portion of the population votes in politician's for prejudicial reasons (guns, race, taxes) but can't see past their prejudices to realize these conservatives are working against their every day standard of living. "Sure, you can have your gun while you scrape along at the bottom."

Ask yourself these questions:
1. Is there a roll for government? Yes
2. If government is dysfunctional should it be scraped or fixed? Fixed. Government is the only referee overseeing big business.
3. If there is a roll for government should it involve overseeing the general good? (It is right there in the Constitution.) Yes
4. Should business be regulated? Absolutely!

I support regulated Capitalism. There are people right here in this forum who would prefer to see government get out of the way of business advocating in essence Wild West Capitalism. For some of you it may be better, but for most it won't.

Which brings up another good discussion- Is Globalization inevitable? Can it be stopped? Do we want it to be stopped or be allowed to run its course? I admit I'm arguing my own best interests. Globalization takes money right out of my pocket. Sure product prices drop 30% while my income drops 40%. I did not win. In the long run will it things be better? I don't really care if things get better 100 years from now. And my gut reaction is that as long as business is allowed to make decisions based solely on maximized profits while disregarding the well being of the employee, it will never get better. Here are some choices: 1) government oversight & regulation 2) revolution 3) anarchy. What did I overlook?

 

[Minor Axis]

'Liberty too can corrupt, and absolute liberty can corrupt absolutely.' -Gertrude Himmelfarb

Kelvin, I'm curious, what does your signature mean to you?

 

[Alien Allen]

we are our own worst enemy

We don't give a shit about quality

It is all about price

30 years ago I had a fair chance to sell a job to a customer. Now all they care about is price. And it has been that way for over 15 years so has nothing to do with the economy.

Customers are idiots. They want the best quality but also the cheapest price. Then when they get shit for quality or the contractor won't come back they piss and moan and wonder why.

I am guilty at times too but not like most. There are plenty of things that I will buy based on quality and dependability and ignore the price. I swear though that some would buy a parachute from the cheapest vendor and not give it a second thought.

 

[Minor Axis]

we are our own worst enemy

We don't give a shit about quality

It is all about price

30 years ago I had a fair chance to sell a job to a customer. Now all they care about is price. And it has been that way for over 15 years so has nothing to do with the economy.

Customers are idiots. They want the best quality but also the cheapest price. Then when they get shit for quality or the contractor won't come back they piss and moan and wonder why.

I am guilty at times too but not like most. There are plenty of things that I will buy based on quality and dependability and ignore the price. I swear though that some would buy a parachute from the cheapest vendor and not give it a second thought.

I have a cousin who works (now part time) in the museum business creating dioramas. Talk about cut throat. Not always, but more and more, the low bidder wins. The problem is that people want these things to look real, at least real enough but they don't want to pay. She can turn out a replica of a plant that is perfect, but it will cost you mostly due to labor expense. I can see her job ending up in China in a heart beat. The last museum I went to in Chicago, the Natural History on the lake, the new (at the time) addition had what looked like store bought Christmas Trees in the woods. Sad for those who like realism or remember what museum dioramas used to look like.

 

[edgray]

I can't find any stats to see if a similar situation is happening over in Blighty. Anyone?

 

[Alien Allen]

I have a cousin who works (now part time) in the museum business creating dioramas. Talk about cut throat. Not always, but more and more, the low bidder wins. The problem is that people want these things to look real, at least real enough but they don't want to pay. She can turn out a replica of a plant that is perfect, but it will cost you mostly due to labor expense. I can see her job ending up in China in a heart beat. The last museum I went to in Chicago, the Natural History on the lake, the new (at the time) addition had what looked like store bought Christmas Trees in the woods. Sad for those who like realism or remember what museum dioramas used to look like.

we have idiots who are doing jobs for half the price due to the economy. A $1500 job they will do for $800

Now you do the math. The product they are installing costs about $400

They will have the better part of the day in labor

You think you would be getting quality for those prices??

You think the contractor will come back to warranty the product?

You think the idiot will stay in business very long in these times when he has $5000 leases per month plus on equipment and that equipment is idle most of the week now?

yet the customer assumes because the person is licensed that no matter who they hire the quality will be the same. Despite the fact the customer has no idea how to do the work or what is involved so it is blind faith. :willy_nilly:

 

[Minor Axis]

we have idiots who are doing jobs for half the price due to the economy. A $1500 job they will do for $800

Now you do the math. The product they are installing costs about $400

They will have the better part of the day in labor

You think you would be getting quality for those prices??

You think the contractor will come back to warranty the product?

You think the idiot will stay in business very long in these times when he has $5000 leases per month plus on equipment and that equipment is idle most of the week now?

yet the customer assumes because the person is licensed that no matter who they hire the quality will be the same. Despite the fact the customer has no idea how to do the work or what is involved so it is blind faith. :willy_nilly:

Everyone one wants something for nothing? Unreasonable expectations?

To some degree it's the same thing in the airline industry. We have trained customers (the ones who used to take a bus) to think that round trip coast to coast for $200 is reasonable. It is competition, but it's destructive competition. Companies don't make profits at that price. Sooner or later they will be thinned out. I'm sure most customers are thrilled at those prices and competition is good, right? They think all these carriers have the same quality pilots or at least an acceptable standard. But you might be surprised. Don't ask me to bad mouth anyone in particular.

For the average airline employee, it is not a healthy, self sustaining work environment. There are other issues such as the business decisions, airlines make such as quadrupling the number of aircraft flying by adding small aircraft onto routes that cost more to operate than a larger plane (per seat). Fortunately I'll be retiring in less than 3 years and hopefully my company will still be going.

 

[kelvin070]

[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]Kelvin, I'm curious, what does your signature mean to you?

Freedom, democracy, and capitalism is not the answer to everything.

 

[retro]

Freedom, democracy, and capitalism is not the answer to everything.

and those aren't the definitions of liberty... thanks for once again proving your ignorance :thumbup

 

[kelvin070]

and those aren't the definitions of liberty... thanks for once again proving your ignorance :thumbup

Think out of the box! I stand by my definition.

 

[retro]

Liberty = The individual right to behave according to one's own personal responsibility and free will.

Now, the concepts that you have a problem with can arise from liberty, they aren't the definition. Furthermore, the United States is not a Democracy, it's a Constitutional Republic, but I don't think you understand that concept. In addition, I'll take my freedoms thank you very much... I actually have the right to voice my opinion about the government without fear of being put in prison... unlike the insignificant little city state you're from. Capitalism can arise from having liberty, but there are plenty of countries out there without liberty that are based on capitalist economies.

So once again, thanks for showing yourself to be grossly ignorant once again.

 

[kelvin070]

Liberty = The individual right to behave according to one's own personal responsibility and free will.

Now, the concepts that you have a problem with can arise from liberty, they aren't the definition. Furthermore, the United States is not a Democracy, it's a Constitutional Republic, but I don't think you understand that concept. In addition, I'll take my freedoms thank you very much... I actually have the right to voice my opinion about the government without fear of being put in prison... unlike the insignificant little city state you're from. Capitalism can arise from having liberty, but there are plenty of countries out there without liberty that are based on capitalist economies.

So once again, thanks for showing yourself to be grossly ignorant once again.

I respect you intepretation but I stand by mine.

 

[retro]

I respect you intepretation but I stand by mine.

You can have capitalism without liberty. You can have a democracy without liberty. I don't know if you can have freedom without liberty... I suppose you can have some freedoms. But by definition, your interpretation is incorrect. But it fits in with your hatred of the United States, so you might as well go with it.