Peter Parka
Well-Known Member
I'm 34 and am constantly being asked for ID. This paranoia in this country is now ridiculous and over the top by far!:thumbdown
Aged 36 and can't get served
By Tom Geoghegan
BBC News Magazine
National identity cards may have been scrapped, but that doesn't mean you don't need to carry other forms of ID. An increasing number of people - some in their 30s and 40s - are being asked for proof of age when buying alcohol. Why?
At the age of 36, twice as old as the youngest legal drinkers, Kay was surprised to be challenged for proof of age when buying her groceries in a Tesco in east London.
"About two years ago, all of a sudden, every time I went to buy alcohol, a bottle of wine with my shopping, they would ask me for ID."
Kay's European health insurance card, with her name and date of birth but no photograph, was not acceptable. So on several occasions, the wine went back on the shelf, until she started taking her passport with her.
BARMAID'S VIEW
Gemma Barua, 28, manager of Wetherspoon in Batley, West Yorks, says anyone who looks under 21 is asked
Staff wear badges informing customers that they will ask
They also log every time they do
Training videos teach staff how to ask with sensitivity
Sometimes customers lose their temper, but overall attitudes have improved, says Gemma
"I know you're meant to feel happy that people think you're younger but when you think about it, they are accusing you of lying and of stealing [someone's ID]."
Others have had a similar experience. Headlines were made when a 72-year-old was unable to buy two bottles of Cabernet Sauvignon at Morrisons in Blackpool because he could not prove his age.
Ironically, it's concern about under-age drinking that is responsible.
A few years ago, before and after the licensing laws were relaxed, newspapers were full of pictures of "Binge drink Britain" - young people lying prostrate on the street or fighting in town centres on a Saturday night.
Since then, the penalties for pubs, supermarkets and off-licences that sell alcohol to people aged under 18 have increased from £10,000 to £20,000, with the added threat of a six-month prison term.
In January, a "two strikes" policy was introduced which means publicans lose their licence if they twice fall foul of under-age sting operations by serving minors posing as customers. The individual employee serving a minor faces an £80 fine.
Mark Hastings
Beer and Pub Association
Also this year, the last government made it mandatory for publicans to be members of schemes like Challenge 21 and Challenge 25 (also Think 21 and Think 25), which means that customers who look as much as three or seven years above the minimum legal age must be asked to provide proof of age.
There are only three acceptable forms of identification, which are a driving licence, a passport or a form of ID approved by the Proof of Age Standards Scheme (PASS). And every time someone is asked for ID, it is logged by bar staff.
An increased number of test purchases reflects the greater scrutiny that licensed premises are under. Serve Legal, a commercial company which carries out test purchases at the request of licensees, made 3,907 visits in 2007 but that rose four-fold to 24,587 last year.
During that time the proportion of pubs passing the checks has nearly doubled from 40% to 75%.
'More American'
The whole climate surrounding proof of age has changed in the last few years, says Mark Hastings of the Beer and Pub Association, which represents two-thirds of pubs in the UK. But awareness of the new rules is very high, he says.
"A recent survey showed 90% of 18- to 21-year-olds knew about Challenge 21 and have experienced a much more rigorous approach to ID checks.
YOU LOOK 25, ANY ID?
Tesco
Asda
Morrisons
Marks and Spencer
Co-Op
Sainsbury's
All these supermarkets demand proof of age for people who look 25 or under
"And we know from the monitoring we do with the pubs, that a million people a month are being turned away for either not having proof of age or because they are under age."
We are moving towards the US culture, often commented on, where it's absolutely common to be asked for ID wherever you go, says Mr Hastings. If you're 21 or under, you should expect to be asked for ID, therefore carry some.
But he questions whether the penalties are proportionate, at a time when there are a reported 50 pubs closing every week.
"Should you be sent to prison for inadvertently serving a drink to someone who is 17? Six months in prison is more than some people get for bashing a granny in the street.
"The word here is probably 'disproportionate', although we have no problem with any government focusing on this as an important issue and ensuring proof of age is rigorously enforced."
Gangs of youths
Caroline Nodder, editor of trade newspaper The Publican, says supermarkets and off-licences are catching up with pubs, now that the media has put the issue of under-age drinking on to the agenda.
"There has been a lot of press about pubs, a lot of examples of people lolling in the gutter. Pubs unfairly get the blame, but they are the public face of drinking and they will get the blame for social aspects of drinking.
"Pubs are the safest place to go and have a drink but cheap alcohol is available through the off-trade. A £4 pint in a pub precludes most under-age drinkers but you do see gangs of youths hanging around with bottles and cans.
"Is it that much of an inconvenience to carry ID? If as a society we want to stop access to alcohol then we have to put up with this."
It's not very British to carry a passport with you, she says, but there are other acceptable forms of identity. "I would love to be ID'd but I don't think it's going to happen."
But not everyone thinks this is a welcome development.
These increasing checks on people buying alcohol is part of a wider crackdown on individual freedoms, says Josie Appleton of the Manifesto Club, which campaigns against what it sees as the "hyperregulation" of everyday life and is conducting a survey on this issue.
"People in their late 30s have been asked for ID for ridiculous things like barbecue skewers and Christmas crackers. It's part of a bigger illiberal trend that means people having to go out with passports on them.
"When I was young, you had to look about 18 if you went to the pub and it wasn't the worst thing in the world if a 17-year-old bought a can of lager. There was no social collapse. We've got things out of proportion."
Aged 36 and can't get served
By Tom Geoghegan
BBC News Magazine
National identity cards may have been scrapped, but that doesn't mean you don't need to carry other forms of ID. An increasing number of people - some in their 30s and 40s - are being asked for proof of age when buying alcohol. Why?
At the age of 36, twice as old as the youngest legal drinkers, Kay was surprised to be challenged for proof of age when buying her groceries in a Tesco in east London.
"About two years ago, all of a sudden, every time I went to buy alcohol, a bottle of wine with my shopping, they would ask me for ID."
Kay's European health insurance card, with her name and date of birth but no photograph, was not acceptable. So on several occasions, the wine went back on the shelf, until she started taking her passport with her.
Gemma Barua, 28, manager of Wetherspoon in Batley, West Yorks, says anyone who looks under 21 is asked
Staff wear badges informing customers that they will ask
They also log every time they do
Training videos teach staff how to ask with sensitivity
Sometimes customers lose their temper, but overall attitudes have improved, says Gemma
"I know you're meant to feel happy that people think you're younger but when you think about it, they are accusing you of lying and of stealing [someone's ID]."
Others have had a similar experience. Headlines were made when a 72-year-old was unable to buy two bottles of Cabernet Sauvignon at Morrisons in Blackpool because he could not prove his age.
Ironically, it's concern about under-age drinking that is responsible.
A few years ago, before and after the licensing laws were relaxed, newspapers were full of pictures of "Binge drink Britain" - young people lying prostrate on the street or fighting in town centres on a Saturday night.
Since then, the penalties for pubs, supermarkets and off-licences that sell alcohol to people aged under 18 have increased from £10,000 to £20,000, with the added threat of a six-month prison term.
In January, a "two strikes" policy was introduced which means publicans lose their licence if they twice fall foul of under-age sting operations by serving minors posing as customers. The individual employee serving a minor faces an £80 fine.
Mark Hastings
Beer and Pub Association
Also this year, the last government made it mandatory for publicans to be members of schemes like Challenge 21 and Challenge 25 (also Think 21 and Think 25), which means that customers who look as much as three or seven years above the minimum legal age must be asked to provide proof of age.
There are only three acceptable forms of identification, which are a driving licence, a passport or a form of ID approved by the Proof of Age Standards Scheme (PASS). And every time someone is asked for ID, it is logged by bar staff.
An increased number of test purchases reflects the greater scrutiny that licensed premises are under. Serve Legal, a commercial company which carries out test purchases at the request of licensees, made 3,907 visits in 2007 but that rose four-fold to 24,587 last year.
During that time the proportion of pubs passing the checks has nearly doubled from 40% to 75%.
'More American'
The whole climate surrounding proof of age has changed in the last few years, says Mark Hastings of the Beer and Pub Association, which represents two-thirds of pubs in the UK. But awareness of the new rules is very high, he says.
"A recent survey showed 90% of 18- to 21-year-olds knew about Challenge 21 and have experienced a much more rigorous approach to ID checks.
Tesco
Asda
Morrisons
Marks and Spencer
Co-Op
Sainsbury's
All these supermarkets demand proof of age for people who look 25 or under
"And we know from the monitoring we do with the pubs, that a million people a month are being turned away for either not having proof of age or because they are under age."
We are moving towards the US culture, often commented on, where it's absolutely common to be asked for ID wherever you go, says Mr Hastings. If you're 21 or under, you should expect to be asked for ID, therefore carry some.
But he questions whether the penalties are proportionate, at a time when there are a reported 50 pubs closing every week.
"Should you be sent to prison for inadvertently serving a drink to someone who is 17? Six months in prison is more than some people get for bashing a granny in the street.
"The word here is probably 'disproportionate', although we have no problem with any government focusing on this as an important issue and ensuring proof of age is rigorously enforced."
Gangs of youths
Caroline Nodder, editor of trade newspaper The Publican, says supermarkets and off-licences are catching up with pubs, now that the media has put the issue of under-age drinking on to the agenda.
"There has been a lot of press about pubs, a lot of examples of people lolling in the gutter. Pubs unfairly get the blame, but they are the public face of drinking and they will get the blame for social aspects of drinking.
"Pubs are the safest place to go and have a drink but cheap alcohol is available through the off-trade. A £4 pint in a pub precludes most under-age drinkers but you do see gangs of youths hanging around with bottles and cans.
"Is it that much of an inconvenience to carry ID? If as a society we want to stop access to alcohol then we have to put up with this."
It's not very British to carry a passport with you, she says, but there are other acceptable forms of identity. "I would love to be ID'd but I don't think it's going to happen."
But not everyone thinks this is a welcome development.
These increasing checks on people buying alcohol is part of a wider crackdown on individual freedoms, says Josie Appleton of the Manifesto Club, which campaigns against what it sees as the "hyperregulation" of everyday life and is conducting a survey on this issue.
"People in their late 30s have been asked for ID for ridiculous things like barbecue skewers and Christmas crackers. It's part of a bigger illiberal trend that means people having to go out with passports on them.
"When I was young, you had to look about 18 if you went to the pub and it wasn't the worst thing in the world if a 17-year-old bought a can of lager. There was no social collapse. We've got things out of proportion."
