Add one more crazy wanna be tin pot dictator to the list...

[nova]

They're torturing me, Honduras' Manuel Zelaya claims - 5-Minute Herald - MiamiHerald.com

They're torturing me, Honduras' Manuel Zelaya claims

Honduras' fallen leader told The Miami Herald he is being subjected to mind-altering gas and radiation -- and that `Israeli mercenaries' are planning to assassinate him.

:24: You want some foil for a hat my man? :24:

 

[Meirionnydd]

They're torturing me, Honduras' Manuel Zelaya claims - 5-Minute Herald - MiamiHerald.com



:24: You want some foil for a hat my man? :24:

I agree, Honduras being ruled by a military government is much favorable than its democratically electe-... Uhh, I mean, crackpot dictator.

 

[nova]

I agree, Honduras being ruled by a military government is much favorable than its democratically electe-... Uhh, I mean, crackpot dictator.

Let me ask you a quick question.

If we here in the US were to use the provisions given us by the US Constitution to remove a president, would that be a Coup?

If you answer no, then you shouldn't have an issue with the Hondurans following their Constitutional provisions and removing their president. After all, they're only following the supreme law of the land just like we would be with an impeachment.

If you answer yes, then you have some seriously whacked out ideas about rule and application of law ie rule of law is only good if it results in an outcome you like.

ETA

Not to mention that last I checked there was no military gov't in place. They again used the provisions in their Constitution to put a new president in place and have their regular elections scheduled for later this year. I tell you, that sure sounds like a military junta to me....

 

[Meirionnydd]

Let me ask you a quick question.

If we here in the US were to use the provisions given us by the US Constitution to remove a president, would that be a Coup?

If you answer no, then you shouldn't have an issue with the Hondurans following their Constitutional provisions and removing their president. After all, they're only following the supreme law of the land just like we would be with an impeachment.

If you answer yes, then you have some seriously whacked out ideas about rule and application of law ie rule of law is only good if it results in an outcome you like.

ETA

Not to mention that last I checked there was no military gov't in place. They again used the provisions in their Constitution to put a new president in place and have their regular elections scheduled for later this year. I tell you, that sure sounds like a military junta to me....

That's an interesting question. If the US decided to impeach the President, I wouldn't consider that to be a coup. Theoretically, the Senate (I'm assuming they do the impeachment proceedings, right?) are elected by and held accountable to, the people, so one could argue that the decision to impeach may represent the views of the people at large. So of course it wouldn't be a coup.

I'm not one for defending a flawed constitution of a flawed democracy (Which is it is, according to the economists democracy index). On the face of it, the situation does not look like a coup. As you said, the supreme court and military acted well within their power. However, I think it becomes a coup when the government suspends parts of the constitution to prevent protests (which they did), and the military is used to suppress dissent. Many human rights abuses allegations have surfaced in the wake of this crisis.

 

[Pabst]

its honduras, let them figure it out for themselves.

 

[Tangerine]

Who is gonna make all the cheap shit for us to sell at Wal-Mart now???

 

[Pabst]

Who is gonna make all the cheap shit for us to sell at Wal-Mart now???

lets try americans again...i'd be willing to pay a bit more if it helps give more jobs to americans.

i know that goes against what everyone else seems to be thinking but that's me, i'm weird, the odd man out.

 

[JanieDough]

:24: You want some foil for a hat my man? :24:

what is this phrase? is this a common phrase???

poopa used it on me once and I didn't get it right, now I do

OOOOHHH

but is this a popularly said phrase or is a direct reference to something?

 

[Pabst]

what is this phrase? is this a common phrase???

poopa used it on me once and I didn't get it right, now I do

OOOOHHH

but is this a popularly said phrase or is a direct reference to something?

its just a reference to how paranoid/conspiratorial a person is.

 

[JanieDough]

its just a reference to how paranoid/conspiratorial a person is.

k thanks!

 

[Azazel]

​

 

[nova]

That's an interesting question. If the US decided to impeach the President, I wouldn't consider that to be a coup. Theoretically, the Senate (I'm assuming they do the impeachment proceedings, right?) are elected by and held accountable to, the people, so one could argue that the decision to impeach may represent the views of the people at large. So of course it wouldn't be a coup.

I'm not one for defending a flawed constitution of a flawed democracy (Which is it is, according to the economists democracy index). On the face of it, the situation does not look like a coup. As you said, the supreme court and military acted well within their power. However, I think it becomes a coup when the government suspends parts of the constitution to prevent protests (which they did), and the military is used to suppress dissent. Many human rights abuses allegations have surfaced in the wake of this crisis.

Well, some people say our Democracy here in the US is flawed as well because we don't directly elect our president, we use the electoral college. Doesn't given them any more legit reason to interfere with our gov't and political affairs than we have with Honduras.

As far as suspending constitutional provisions, we have a history of that here in the US too. The US Civil War and the suspension of Habeus Corpus rights and the use of the US Army to prevent the secession of Maryland spring to mind. I'm sure those would be seen as human rights abuses today too. From the position of the Honduran Legislature and Courts, they have a deposed president trying to foment a rebellion and they're trying to keep the country together.

Whatever the flaws of the Honduran democracy and its governing constitition, it is still their supreme law of the land and they are obliged to follow it till its seen fit to change it. And yes, they do have a fully functional amendment process, there are just some provisions that are not eligible to be amended.

I know some people don't like those restrictions, but I understand completely why they're there. Elected presidents in central and south America have a nasty habit of becoming dictators when they hang around in office too long. I've heard some people say its due to a culture of indemnic corruption but I really have no clue how true that is.

Hugo Chavez is a prime example of this. He sure was "elected" by the people, although their is good question about how fairly, but I dare say he won't leave office when his term is up. He's already putting the pieces in place and crushing any voice of dissent to set just that situation up. He's already started the process of revoking broadcast licenses for any radio and TV stations that dare to voice opposition views and I only see things going down hill from there. Especially once Venezuealan oil development starts drying up.

Bottom line for me is that we have no business interfering in the operations of their gov't and trying to press for a resolution we like. Its not our country, and especially when dealing with what was a functioning democracy, we have to respect the excercise of properly constituted legal authority. We start picking and choosing based on which outcome we like, we're opening a dangerous can of worms....

 

[Accountable]

its honduras, let them figure it out for themselves.

:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

 

[nova]

And now we reversed course on Honduras. I read some predictions of this a while back. Basically, our incompetent boob of a President running an incompetent admin put us in an untenable position.

Ousted Honduran leader asks Clinton stand on coup - Yahoo! News

Hows life under the bus Mr. Zelaya cuz thats where you just got thrown.

Ousted President Manuel Zelaya is asking the Obama Administration why, after pressing for his reinstatement, it now says it will recognize upcoming Honduran elections even if he isn't returned to power first.

In a letter sent to the U.S. State Department on Wednesday, Zelaya asked Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton "to clarify to the Honduran people if the position condemning the coup d'etat has been changed or modified."

His request came after Washington's top envoy to Latin America, Thomas Shannon, told CNN en Espanol that Washington will recognize the Nov. 29 elections even if the Honduran Congress decides against returning Zelaya to power.

And this comes after no less than John Kerry tried to get a report assessing the legality of Zelaya's removal suppressed and retracted...

 

[Dana]

lets try americans again...i'd be willing to pay a bit more if it helps give more jobs to americans.

i know that goes against what everyone else seems to be thinking but that's me, i'm weird, the odd man out.

:homo: Nothing's made in America anymore... Mom and pop stores maybe but you have to pay an arm and a leg for the "craftsmanship" that should already be here.

 

[nova]

Plenty is still made in the US. Just not cheap crap you buy at retail.

‘Made in the USA’ still means something - U.S. business- msnbc.com

As Stephen Manning of the Associated Press acknowledged in a rare "just the facts" story in mid-February, the U.S. "by far remains the world's leading manufacturer," producing goods valued at a record $1.6 trillion in 2007 — nearly double the $811 billion produced a decade earlier. Indeed, the AP writer noted, "For every $1 of value produced in China's factories [in 2007], America generated $2.50." Not bad for a country that doesn't produce anything anymore.

Another reason is the fact that there is a kernel of truth in some of the naysayers' claims. Some of our factories are outdated; but many are among the most modern in the world. Wage and legacy costs — retiree health benefits, for example — have made some companies less competitive. By the same token, U.S. multinationals are generally among the most productive and innovative in the world. And, yes, U.S. companies have ceded production of men's dress shirts that retail for $12, microwave ovens that retail for $69, and boom boxes that retail for less than half that price to low-cost developing countries.

But the U.S. leads the world in many high-value fields, producing more than half of the $175 billion in health care technology products purchased worldwide each year, for example. The U.S. also ranks as the world's largest producer of chemicals, selling 11 percent of the global total. And, as the AP reported, we "sold more than $200 billion worth of aircraft, missiles, and space-related equipment in 2007."

In fact, even in the midst of a global recession, the U.S. exported an estimated $1.377 trillion worth of goods last year, according to the authoritative CIA World Factbook. Nearly half of the exports were capital goods: aircraft, computers, electric power machinery, office machines, telecommunications equipment, and the like. Industrial supplies, such as organic chemicals, accounted for another nearly 27 percent. And consumer goods, including pharmaceuticals, and agricultural products accounted for 15 percent and 9 percent, respectively.

A third reason for our collective funk (and there are certainly other reasons) may be the nostalgia factor, particularly prevalent among the baby boomers: the fact that much of what was "Made in America" in the past — think clothing, radios, televisions, telephones, sewing machines, toys, tools, housewares, small appliances, baby furniture, bicycles, even the legendary Oldsmobile "Rocket 88" that was so much a part of the America in which many baby boomers came of age — isn't made here anymore. (The Rocket 88, in fact, isn't made at all.) Seeing so many iconic Made in America brands disappear seemingly overnight has caused pain and anxiety for many Americans.

 

[Accountable]

And now we reversed course on Honduras. I read some predictions of this a while back. Basically, our incompetent boob of a President running an incompetent admin put us in an untenable position.

Ousted Honduran leader asks Clinton stand on coup - Yahoo! News

Hows life under the bus Mr. Zelaya cuz thats where you just got thrown.



And this comes after no less than John Kerry tried to get a report assessing the legality of Zelaya's removal suppressed and retracted...