A Politician Who Talks Common Sense

Users who are viewing this thread

Peter Parka

Well-Known Member
Messages
42,387
Reaction score
3
Tokenz
0.06z
I was disappointed when Ken Clarke failed to be elected Conservative leader a few years ago and here's a good reason why - a politician that dosen't pander to tabloid, shit stirring crap and speaks sense regardless of all the useless, "feed them bread and water" brigade!
:clap:clap:clap

Justice Secretary plans 'radical' prison policy change



_48213750_000318806-1.jpg More than 85,000 people are currently in prison in England and Wales Vast sums are being spent "warehousing" people in outdated prisons without any proof it protects the public, Justice Secretary Ken Clarke is to say.
In a speech later, he will say he is amazed at the growth in the prison population and he will demand a radical new approach to cut re-offending.
It will involve paying private firms and voluntary groups according to how many prisoners they rehabilitate.
Prisons must focus on "education, hard work and change," Mr Clarke will add.
'Victorian England' In his first major speech since taking office, Mr Clarke will say that prison has too often proved "a costly and ineffectual approach that fails to turn criminals into law-abiding citizens".
"My first priority is the safety of the British public," he will say.
"But just banging up more and more people for longer without actively seeking to change them is what you would expect of Victorian England."

Daniel Sandford,
Home Affairs Correspondent, BBC News
"Prisons work!" Michael Howard declared in his Conservative Party conference speech in 1993.
From that moment, the prison population in England and Wales started to rise.
Labour, trying to out-tough the Tories on crime, did not stop the trend when they took office.
The increase was driven by a combination of tougher sentences handed out by judges under pressure from politicians, and more crimes involving violence and drugs.
Penal reformers pleaded that prison was not always the answer, but although ministers often agreed in private, nothing ever seemed to change.
It has taken a man who has run the prisons before to publicly question the wisdom of the policy.
Even so, Ken Clarke is not promising to cut the prison population, only to look at cost-effective ways of preventing reoffending.
He's not saying prison doesn't work. But he is saying it doesn't always work.

That is almost twice the figure in 1992 when Mr Clarke was last in charge of prisons as home secretary - an increase he will say he would have dismissed as "impossible and ridiculous" if someone had predicted it at the time.
On Wednesday, MSPs will decide whether to approve major changes to the Scottish justice system, which would see fewer short prison sentences, with non-prison alternatives used instead.
The Criminal Justice and Licensing Bill aims to cut reoffending by boosting these alternatives to jail, although plans for a presumption against prison terms of six months or less have been cut to three months following opposition.
In his speech in London, Mr Clarke will suggest that he agrees with the need to reduce the use of short sentences, which make it "virtually impossible" to rehabilitate prisoners successfully.
Instead, he wants to shift the emphasis to "intelligent sentencing".
"This means prisons that are places of punishment, but also of education, hard work and change," he will say.
"It means rigorously enforced community sentences that punish offenders, but also get them off drugs and alcohol and into employment."
Costlier option? The government plans to use the voluntary and private sectors to rehouse, rehabilitate and find work for released prisoners, with bodies only paid if their efforts lead to a significant fall in reoffending.
These reforms will hopefully pay for themselves by reducing the costs elsewhere within the criminal justice system, Mr Clarke will add.
But Prof Malcolm Davies, from Thames Valley University's law school, said sending criminals to jail was often the cheapest option.
"It costs a lot more to have persistent offenders out on the street," he told the BBC.
"If you add in the full cost, other than sending to people to prison, which is the processing of the police, the prosecution time, the cost to insurance, the cost and trauma to victims."
Juliet Lyon, of the Prison Reform Trust, said the sytem needs change as it is not working.
"You only have to look at the reconviction rates for those short sentence people - over 60% reconvicted within a year of release - to realise that we've got very poor value for money," she said.
Reoffending rose by 8% for adults between 2006 and 2008, and nearly half of offenders sent to prison are reconvicted within a year.



BBC
 
  • 5
    Replies
  • 248
    Views
  • 0
    Participant count
    Participants list

Meirionnydd

Active Member
Messages
793
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
Prison is by far the most expensive option to deal with an offender. Generally, it costs around $50,000 a year to house a prisoner, and prison is by no means an effective way to deal with criminality. Even with a myriad of rehabilitation and education programs available while in prison, the recidivism rate for prisoners in the UK is still about 50% (If I remember correctly).

Hence, an individual can be sentenced, serve his time, and then eventually be back offending when released, much the contrary to what Malcolm Davies (the professor in the article) asserts. Community corrections is by far the cheapest option when it comes to dealing with offenders. I believe that prison should be used as a last resort, reserved for only the most dangerous offenders.

Anyway, rising prison populations is a trend that is happening in nearly all Western countries over the past 30 years or so. With that said, Nordic countries have the lowest prison populations per capita, due to their reluctance to enact more punitive forms of punishment; while the United States has by far the highest, for the opposite reason.

Prisons don't work.
 

Francis

Sarcasm is me :)
Messages
8,367
Reaction score
1
Tokenz
2.08z
Prison is by far the most expensive option to deal with an offender. Generally, it costs around $50,000 a year to house a prisoner, and prison is by no means an effective way to deal with criminality. Even with a myriad of rehabilitation and education programs available while in prison, the recidivism rate for prisoners in the UK is still about 50% (If I remember correctly).

Hence, an individual can be sentenced, serve his time, and then eventually be back offending when released, much the contrary to what Malcolm Davies (the professor in the article) asserts. Community corrections is by far the cheapest option when it comes to dealing with offenders. I believe that prison should be used as a last resort, reserved for only the most dangerous offenders.

Anyway, rising prison populations is a trend that is happening in nearly all Western countries over the past 30 years or so. With that said, Nordic countries have the lowest prison populations per capita, due to their reluctance to enact more punitive forms of punishment; while the United States has by far the highest, for the opposite reason.

Prisons don't work.

I would go even a step further and say prisons are probably the best institution to breed super criminals.. Some of our best criminals have come out from prisons and were best educated by our other criminals during a stay..

Canada is on a path to build even more prisons and longer stays for minor offenders.. What a great way to educate those who know little with those who know a lot.. :thumbdown
 

porterjack

Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Messages
10,935
Reaction score
305
Tokenz
0.10z
I would go even a step further and say prisons are probably the best institution to breed super criminals.. Some of our best criminals have come out from prisons and were best educated by our other criminals during a stay..

Canada is on a path to build even more prisons and longer stays for minor offenders.. What a great way to educate those who know little with those who know a lot.. :thumbdown
prisons and law school
 

Francis

Sarcasm is me :)
Messages
8,367
Reaction score
1
Tokenz
2.08z
prisons and law school

Law School = Politicians = Expensive Crimin... :24::24:

Why more Expensive youy say.. Well if they give away our money to friends, swiss bank accounts or what ever, add the high society jail, the cost is extreme.. :D
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Minor Axis

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,294
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.02z
Both the U.S. and England rely on tossing people into prison for breaking laws. Now we have a huge prision population. How is this fixed, building more prisons or figure a way so less people break laws? The problem seems insurmountable.

While the truly dangerous individuals must be incarcerated or detained in some from, I think it's been proven beyond doubt that prison as it exists does nothing to reform or teach the offender a lesson. And it's very expensive. I not surprised that at one point, Texas had the most inmates doing hard time for minor pot possession...totally misguided when you treat a health issue as a crime.

Is there an alternative that works? One example is stop incarcerating people for addiction, treat them. Another solution is cultivating an economy where most prosper. Can Capitalism accomplish this or is it too focused on enriching the individual? Personally I think a well regulated capitalistic system has the potential, but the emphasis must not be on protecting the few "well off" individuals in society, where the emphasis tends to be.

This might lead you to social engineering or characteristics of society that could be called socialistic, taking the average individual to a place where they don't feel the need to commit criminal acts. Not to imply there would be no crime, but maybe less crime. I can't speak for Europeans, but it's a place I don't think the average American wants to go.

With tongue-in-cheek I ask, could part of the problem be reliance on "The Bible Standard"? The concept of follow the rules or be punished stands in the way of more creative solutions? And when it comes to society is it every man/woman for themselves or should society act in way that nurtures the overall well being of the group? And how does that fit in with some American's feelings of liberty? -just leave me alone, I don't want to pay for other people's problems. I'm sure you have some like that in England. ;) I'm not promoting, just considering if there are alternatives to hard jail time and/or other social solutions.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
78,874Threads
2,185,388Messages
4,959Members
Back
Top