Jesus literalist. What would change your mind?

[Greatest I am]

Jesus literalist. What would change your mind?

Many books on Jesus and Christianity have come out of late questioning the historicity and source of both Jesus and the gospels. Most of these come down on the negative side of Jesus being real or of scripture coming from the apostles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljRKhZ81aqY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0W7Jbc_Vhw&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjxZ6MrBl9E&feature=related

All who believe in Jesus and scripture must read the Bible literally, to some extent.
After all, what other book give Jesus historicity or literal existence? None.
There is not one historical secular document that I know of that indicates that some miracle working Jesus ever existed.

The Bible begins with a talking serpent and other miracles that defy nature and physics.. This should be warning enough, for anyone who can think independently that the Bible should not be read literally. Alas, this clear message is lost on some believers .

Most scholars know that the Bible is myth and can be read in a variety of ways. As allegory, myth or literal. They choose not to read it literally as that would mean that they would have to believe in fantasy miracles and magic. Most will not take that leap of faith.

The Catholic pope and most mainstream Abraham protestant religions say not to read the Bible literally but as stated above, they must read some of it literally to believe that Jesus actually existed. They do not seem to follow their own advise.

As a follower of a real historic Jesus, do you recognize that you are a literalist?
How deeply do you believe in fantasy, miracles and magic?
As an adult, do you see your fantastic beliefs as those of a healthy mind?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNSe4Ff57n4&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDbesQQi9yc

What would it take for you to change your mind about fantasy, miracles and magic being real? These are required for you to believe in a real historic Jesus.

Keeping Jesus divine in our minds may discourage some in trying to follow his lead.

Is there something that would change your mind or start you seeing Jesus as an archetypal good man that we are to emulate?

Regards
DL

 

[Alexis]

To answer your original question, I would say "Nothing". It's not that I'm extremely "Religious", just a believer. Why would someone find it necessary to try to debunk someone's deeply held beliefs? Is this a hobby or a goal? Some Christians proselytise, and apparently, so do some Atheists.

 

[BornReady]

Some Christians proselytise, and apparently, so do some Atheists.

Actually GIA is not an atheist. I'm not sure how to describe his beliefs, perhaps gnostic spiritualism would come close. More important to me, GIA is a humanist. I'm a secular humanist. I promote the humanist part of my beliefs because I think humanism is what this world needs. The secular part isn't important. It's just what I am. I hope you're a christian humanist. If not, I'm sure I'll try to convert you eventually.

 

[Greatest I am]

To answer your original question, I would say "Nothing". It's not that I'm extremely "Religious", just a believer. Why would someone find it necessary to try to debunk someone's deeply held beliefs? Is this a hobby or a goal? Some Christians proselytise, and apparently, so do some Atheists.

Yes.
They fight for good actions their way and I fight against their evil actions my way.

It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are Religionists.
They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief. They make us all into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Belief in fantasy is evil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHaClUCw4&feature=PlayList&p=5123864A5243470E&index=0&playnext=1

They also do much harm to their own.

African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI&feature=related

Jesus Camp 1of 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBv8tv62yGM

Promoting death to Gays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Zg_BVzw&feature=related

For evil to grow my friends, all good people need do is nothing.
Fight them when you can.

Back to your comment.

Your deeply held beliefs are based on the same fantasy, miracles and magic that fuel the beliefs of those above and you indirectly contribute to it. IMO.

That is why I fight literal beliefs.
Believe in a God if you like, I do but it is not a miracle working absentee God.
There is a spiritual world but it has little to do with the Bible.

Regards
DL

 

[Alexis]

I understand what you mean, DL. I may not agree with it, but I can respect it.

 

[Panacea]

I love that Minchin video, saw it a few months ago for the first time, it's brilliant

 

[Greatest I am]

I understand what you mean, DL. I may not agree with it, but I can respect it.

Respecting what one does not agree with is something I do not do.
I do not even know how someone can do that.

What part do you not agree with?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I love that Minchin video, saw it a few months ago for the first time, it's brilliant

Some comedians have the best minds on the planet.

I E. George Carlin.

Regards
DL

 

[HK]

Respecting what one does not agree with is something I do not do.
I do not even know how someone can do that.

It's possible to believe someone is wrong, but to respect their right to believe what they want if they're not hurting anyone.

I don't believe atheists or christians are correct in their beliefs, but I won't say they aren't allowed those beliefs so long as they don't use them against others. I only object to religious beliefs on either side when people start using them for nefarious purposes.

 

[Greatest I am]

It's possible to believe someone is wrong, but to respect their right to believe what they want if they're not hurting anyone.

I don't believe atheists or christians are correct in their beliefs, but I won't say they aren't allowed those beliefs so long as they don't use them against others. I only object to religious beliefs on either side when people start using them for nefarious purposes.

I see. You can respect them if they play by your rules.

Hmm. In that case, I too can respect views I do not like as long as the believer is playing by my rules.

Regards
DL

 

[HK]

I see. You can respect them if they play by your rules.

Hmm. In that case, I too can respect views I do not like as long as the believer is playing by my rules.

I can't tell if you actually agree or are trying to be sarcastic about my response?

I don't care what people want to believe or what they do with their lives - the only time it becomes objectionable to me is when people use their beliefs to do harm to others. That's not expecting someone to 'play by rules', it's just common human decency.

 

[dkwrtw]

If Jesus himself appeared to me and told me he wasn't real

 

[Greatest I am]

I can't tell if you actually agree or are trying to be sarcastic about my response?

I don't care what people want to believe or what they do with their lives - the only time it becomes objectionable to me is when people use their beliefs to do harm to others. That's not expecting someone to 'play by rules', it's just common human decency.

I am saying that your use of language, even by my poor standards, is quite in-accurate and self contradictory.

You say you do not care and follow through showing conditions and exceptions that show that you do care.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

If Jesus himself appeared to me and told me he wasn't real

Satan is said to deceive the whole world. How would you know it was not Satan in drag?

Regards
DL

 

[HK]

I am saying that your use of language, even by my poor standards, is quite in-accurate and self contradictory.

You say you do not care and follow through showing conditions and exceptions that show that you do care.

Everyone has conditions. IF someone with religious beliefs practices them in a way that doesn't cause harm to others then no, I don't care. But IF they were using those beliefs to hurt other people, then I would care.

I don't see what's difficult to understand about that. It's not exactly unusual to have no issue with a group of people until they start causing problems.

 

[Greatest I am]

Everyone has conditions. IF someone with religious beliefs practices them in a way that doesn't cause harm to others then no, I don't care. But IF they were using those beliefs to hurt other people, then I would care.

I don't see what's difficult to understand about that. It's not exactly unusual to have no issue with a group of people until they start causing problems.

I understood it well enough to know it was a poor use of language.

I don't care, but I do care under certain conditions means, I do care.

Regards
DL

 

[HK]

I don't care, but I do care under certain conditions means, I do care.

It means I care under those conditions. If they're not met, I don't care.

Just because there is the potential for an emotion doesn't mean I'm feeling it right now. Take Sadie for example - she's very obviously a person of religion. I don't care. It doesn't matter to me, one way or another. However, if she decided to use her religious beliefs to start hurting other people for not believing the same as her, then I would be outraged by her. Then I would care.

 

[Greatest I am]

It means I care under those conditions. If they're not met, I don't care.

Just because there is the potential for an emotion doesn't mean I'm feeling it right now. Take Sadie for example - she's very obviously a person of religion. I don't care. It doesn't matter to me, one way or another. However, if she decided to use her religious beliefs to start hurting other people for not believing the same as her, then I would be outraged by her. Then I would care.

You do not care that she promotes belief in fantasy, miracles and magic and perpetuates beliefs that indirectly create the type of mentality that follows?

African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI&feature=related

Jesus Camp 1of 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBv8tv62yGM

Promoting death to Gays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Zg_BVzw&feature=related

You do not care that as a Christian, she is supposed to promote chastity while instead, she is putting sexy images all over her postings and causing sin in a very direct way, if you hapen to believe in thought sins, and Christians are supposed to?

Yep. She is the usual Christian all right.

Regards
DL

 

[HK]

You do not care that she promotes belief in fantasy, miracles and magic and perpetuates beliefs that indirectly create the type of mentality that follows?

You do not care that as a Christian, she is supposed to promote chastity while instead, she is putting sexy images all over her postings and causing sin in a very direct way, if you hapen to believe in thought sins, and Christians are supposed to?

Nope. Don't give a damn. She can believe whatever the hell she wants, and talk about it as much as she likes - anyone with half a brain is capable for deciding for themselves whether she's worth listening to.

Talk hurts no one. Someone having laughable contradictions in their beliefs is funny to observe, but I still have no objection to it.

 

[EliseLouisiana]

I try not to discuss this very often as it seems to get on the wrong side of a lot of people, but I see absolutely no reason to believe that religion is true. I find that there is a lot of hypocrisy in religion, and a lot of ignorance. Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I respect whatever someone believes, but surely if the Bible is the "Holy Book" it must be followed under any circumstance? In modern day it is left open to one's own interpretation - I know a lot of believers say that God gave us free will but there should be specific rules we must follow, right?
I'm an Atheist - I was never exposed to the teachings of the Bible, nor have I gone to church and so I was able to come to my own conclusion. One of my friends however is a strict Christian but he contradicts himself all the time and it actually gets quite frustrating - (he believes in Ghosts and UFOs and he believes in some parts of the Bible). The only religion I recall that says that a person's spirit can remain on Earth is Catholicism, so really he isn't a Christian?..
I mean I absolutely believe that everyone should have some faith but where do you draw the line? If you're going to constantly contradict yourself than surely you should just say that you believe in God but not say that you follow a particular religion. Think I'm going off on one a bit...